SmallCaliberCentral

The instructions say to subtract .001" from a loaded round to determine wich size bushing I'll need. So can I just resize a fired case with my RCBS full length die, & seat a bullet to obtain my "loaded round" measurement? If so it looks like I'll need a .228" bushing.

Sorry if this is a stupid question. I'm pretty new to the world of handloading & really new to the world of "precision" handloading. Still trying to figure all this stuff out but I'm having lot's of fun trying.

Thanks, any help will be greatly appreciated.

Terry

terrance250--Yes, you can use your regular sizing die and measure the loaded round.

You don't mention whether you are turning the necks on your casings. The Redding information says that if you are using a Type "S" style die and NOT turning the outside of your caase necks, then you should use a bushing that is .002" smaller than your smallest average neck diameter of your loaded round and they further encourage you to use the expander ball that comes with your Type "S" die.

Make sure you are using a precision micrometer when measuring your loaded casing neck diameter and not just a caliper. You'll get waaaay more accurate measurements with the precision micrometer than you will with most calipers.

Also, measure 10 or more loaded rounds to get your average diameter.

terrance250

That .228 bushing sounds pretty big. You might want a little more neck tension. I would opt for the .226 bushing. I've sized with the .228 bushing before when loading for my XR-100 and the bullets fell into the case. More neck tension did reduce my Extreme Spread.

I neck turn my brass to .011 for my tight necked Panda. I'm using a .223 - .224 bushing for that rifle and getting excellent results.

Silverfox

I'm curious as to why you would use an expander ball with a bushing die. Wouldn't the expander be defeating the bushing? Thanks.

Silverfox & skipper, thanks for the replies. I thought I was on the right track but wanted to make sure.

As of now I'm not neck turning my brass, but plan to in the future. I'll go ahead & load up 10 rounds and as long as my average measurement stays the same I'll order a .226 & .227 bushing.

Also noticed these bushing are offered in steel or titanium. Is the titanium worth the extra $8 ?


Thanks agian. The internet sure make life easier .

Terrance,

From what I understand, the titanium will wear longer, but I don't know about $8 longer. I decided to go with the steel until I found the exact size I needed, and then upgrade to the TiN coated, (I have already turned the necks on several hundred cases). If neck turning is in your future, I would probably just start with steel, as the neck OD is going to change when you turn them down. Remember, Redding recommends lube for both steel or TiN. As wisely stated above, in the long run, you will be better off with a good micrometer.

skipper wrote:
I'm curious as to why you would use an expander ball with a bushing die. Wouldn't the expander be defeating the bushing? Thanks.

Skipper
If your not neck turning or not doing a good job of it if you are the expander ball will push the defects to the outside of the brass supposedly giving a more equal seating tension.
In this scenario the ball is defeating the bushing. Its basic use is to limit the amount of sizing recquired to help with brass longevity.
Safe bet your Panda does'nt need it but the rest of us might be better off using one. I have a few expanders whittled down to different dimensions if I feel like playing with varying tensions.
Small variations in tension can still be acheived using one size expander with different bushings. Varying springback I quess.

Terrance I'm currently using a .223 bushing with the ball. The .228 does sound pretty big. I echo headspaces sentiments. Steel is fine. Buy extra sizes. Powdered graphite works great. Somewhat messy but oh so easy and fast.

Titanium Nitride coating is excellent for forming.It will give you more lubricity and less friction. This adds up to less work hardening and longer case life. TiN is one of the first tool coatings and it's still holding it's own today. Good stuff.

skipper--If you read the material available in the Sinclair catalog about using the expander ball with the Type "S" bushing dies, you are told that the expander ball does very little "expanding" and thus supposedly doesn't overwork the brass.

When I first started using my Redding Type "S" bushing neck sizing die I did use the expander ball. Since I switched to using an arbor press and Wilson neck sizing dies, I don't have to worry about the expander ball.
I use my .226" Redding Titanium nitride bushing in my Wilson neck sizing dies and the Wilson dies just have a mandrel with a decapping pin on the end and no expander ball.

Silverfox

I've been wanting to spring for the K&M arbor press. Which arbor press did you buy? Can you give us a little review of the one you bought. Was it worth the investment?

terrance250--Sorry to be messing up and stealing your thread like this, but if you don't mind, I will answer Skipper's question about my arbor press.

I have never used any other arbor press, nor have I ever seen any another arbor press except in photos. The one I have is a Haydon press. It is very functional, easy to adjust, and MAN is it heavy!!! I bought this one used over the Internet. I got it for a very good price and I like it. When I neck size casings I go to the extra work of spinning the casing 1/2 turn after the first stroke of the arbor press and then running the casing back into the die one more time. I should check the runout on the casings after the first run into the die and then recheck them after the second time in and out. I could be wasting a lot of time and effort for no good reason. I don't have a photo of the press, but if you are interested I can take one or two and post them.

I'm not Terrance....but would also defintely like to see the photos.....thanks. George

Vartarg & Skipper--I don't feel good about posting any more about the arbor press in this thread, so I will start a new thread and name it: Haydon Arbor Press Photos and I'll post photos in that one as soon as I get them PhotoShopped and up in my PhotoBucket account. I'll try to get that done by 3:00 p.m. Central Daylight Savings Time. I don't want to miss too much of the BIG golf tournament.

My thread has been hijacked! ................j/k

Anyway I got 10 rounds loaded up with SBKs and all measured the same at .228". I used a Starret Mic so I'm confident in my readings. I'm going to order the .226 & .227" bushings as well as a couple others for future development. Only bad part is it looks like I'll have to wait awhile to get them. Midway shows the sizes I need all as special order 30 day wait. Oh well, the sooner I get going on this the sooner I'll have them.




Now to hijack my own thread .......what type of case lube would you reccomend for neck sizing?

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The best lube I've found is Imperial, it comes in white wax and black powder which is graphite mixed. I use Midway all the time and get great service but no need to wait a month or more for bushings. Most of the benchrest supply places (Sinclair, Hart, Brunos, Russ Haydon) should have them in stock.

I just checked Midway's stock and they have both busings in other brands, L. E. Wilson and Forester in steel and RCBS and Redding in the coated bushings.

I have used both the wax and graphite Imperial. They both work very well but each has a mess factor. The graphite is going to get on your fingers but is easy to wipe off the exterior of the case neck after sizing. It may be a little quicker to apply. I use a bottle cap and put into it just enough to coat the neck when I dunk the case neck into the graphite. A tap on the case knocks off excess and any in the inside of the neck. I hold a rag in my left hand to wipe the neck after sizing. Ready to load.
The wax is also good and wipes off easy. I do not run an expander so the interior of the neck does not need to be lubed. I go back and forth between the two.