soot down side of cases

[ak907hunter]

I recently started to reload for my .204 using 35 gr bergers and 45 gr hornady bullets. Yesterday I shot some of my 35s and had a lot of soot all the way down the side to the rim of my cases, the previous batch of them I loaded did not do this and neither did the factory hornady 32 gainers or the 45s. The only things I changed were the powder charge up to max per the berger manual and the COL. I seated the bullets to 2.290 which is my magazine length, could seating them .030 farther out cause this?

[jo191145]

What powder are you using? Viht by chance?

[ak907hunter]

Reloader 10x

[jo191145]

Eeeww, that's like pouring diesel fuel into a Lamborghini.

Just my little dig at those who insist on using the modern equivalent of black powder in a modern cartridge I drop by here once in a while to rile up the crowd.

Well it's like this. Most reloading data is on the conservative side. Most other reloading data concerning 10x and the 204 is pretty much spot on though. It seems they re formulate that stuff every couple years trying to refine it into a useable product and it pays to be conservative. That's right another little dig
In Walts case he is extra conservative. The man makes the finest over the counter bullets but
his load data is very weak, to the point of becoming dangerous in some cases.
So shall we assume your using 23.8 gns behind those 35's?
Years back the go to charge weight on this forum was 25.1 to acheive Nirvana.Don't take my
memory as gospel, I can quarentee its not. Do,your own investigating with other sources. There should be load data links at the top,of the page. Use em.

Bottom line, you should be well below max at 23.8. heck you might just be at starting weight.
Why did it work the first time and not the second? I don't actually have the answer to that. I've seen that happen myself using Walts data. I could speculate but I feel I've done enough of that already. Look elsewhere for reloading data. Most other data is arrived at by using real world pressure testing. It's my understanding Berger uses computer models. In every cartridge I've ever compared Berger is extremely low.

PS welcome to the forum. The digs aren't aimed at you but the fans of 10x will probably now awaken from thier slumber in order to chastise me. The end result of that is you'll get more and better informed answers from the users of diesel fuel.
I'm sneaky like that.

[jo191145]

Ok yeah, it's been awhile since I've been here. Our old forum had links to all the reloading data at the top of the page. This new forum doesn't. No idea where they stuck it now but I'm sure it's somewhere. That was a very user friendly linkythingamajiggy. Sorry to see its been hidden.

[RAMOS]

My go-to powder for the 204R using 32 gr V-Max and 35 gr Bergers has been RL 10X since 2008. My go-to fuel for pick-up trucks has been diesel since 1991. See any pattern there jo191145? Been more than happy with both decisions.


As for the sooting.... Never had the issue before. As mentioned above, you may want to tinker with your loads a bit. My load in a Cooper Model 21 does use more powder. One other thing, any chance your brass is ready to be annealed? I am using WW brass, annealed after every four firings. Primers are Federal 205M or Remington 7 1/2's. Hang in there, and keep your RL 10X dry!

[jo191145]

Umn yeah, I see a pattern. You enjoy watching black smoke pour from round pipes :)

All kidding aside help the guy find some decent load data. Whered you newbies hide the stuff?

[ak907hunter]

Yes 23.8 grains and I have heard that about the berger data. The re10x was easy to find locally and seemed to be a popular choice for this caliber so I thought I'd give it a try. It does seem to be a little dirty. As far as annealing brass, I've never done that before. These were once or twice fired hornady brass using cci br-4 primers.

[jo191145]

It is very popular here. Ive also witnessed some very good accuracy with it. Problem for me was it couldn't maintain that accuracy very long without a lot of scrubbing. The games I played did not allow much time for scrubbing between relays. I wont pick on it further, in the past they get sensitive.

It may clean up a little if you get the pressures up where they belong. Wasn't my experience but others claim that to be theirs.

For the 35's which I used almost exclusively Benchmark was at the other end of the carbon spectrum. Great accuracy potential if your barrel could run that clean without coppering. I forced W-748 to work for me. Not a clean burning powder but after 10 or so shots fouling stopped accumulating. I'd put at least 500 rds through it in a season without cleaning. The small loss in accuracy potential was more than made up by its consistency.

Fouling wether its carbon or copper effects consistent accuracy. That's why we choose powders our particular bore likes.

Hornady is known to be an overly hard brass. I used it for years simply because there was no other choice back then. Never had any blowback issues with it. I did have blowback issues with every Viht powder I tried but that was with Nosler and thats another story.
Not knocking Nosler brass, best stuff going I know of

Annealing is a good thing to learn but I doubt its your problem today. Even hard brass will obturate if you whack it with enough pressure. How far down the case is this soot traveling?

OK I just reread the thread title. You have a low pressure problem. Do be careful though. The couple of pounds of 10X I tried SEEMED to build pressure fast.

[ak907hunter]

Getting soot all the way to the rim.

[ak907hunter]

Do you think a .5 grain increase in charge would be too much of a jump?

[jo191145]

Do you think a .5 grain increase in charge would be too much of a jump?

I think one .5 gn jump would be fine.
Seeing as your from Alaska let me assume finding a place to shoot is real easy.

I would run a short quick pressure test. That way if things don't improve or improve too fast you can just stop without having half a box of ammo left over to pull apart.

Load three at 24.3 two as foulers and one for the money.

Then load just one cartridge in .2 gn increments.
24.5
24.7
24.9
25.1

If the problem doesn't stop before that you do have a problem.
If you shoot them at one target, can see your hits, you just might see a couple of those charge weights in order chewing a small hole. Maybe

[ak907hunter]

Ok that sounds like a good plan, thanks. I'll look around for some other powders to test also, but until recently powder has been pretty scarce around here but that seems to have changed. It'll be a couple weeks before I can do any more testing as I'm up north at work and just started my rotation.

[RAMOS]

Umn yeah, I see a pattern. You enjoy watching black smoke pour from round pipes :)

All kidding aside help the guy find some decent load data. Whered you newbies hide the stuff?

Okay, I walked right into that one.

All kidding aside, the OP is on the right path. Just keep working those loads up in 2/10ths of one grain increments. Watch for pressure signs and see what happens in regards to the sooting and grouping. RL 10X may not be the cleanest powder but, I sure don't see it as being 'dirty', either. We all have our own opinions and biases. Just because I am right and jo191145 is wrong, don't mean I have to spend my time proving it to him.

If you get a chance to pick up some WW or Nosler brass, grab it. The Hornaday brass is not your' best friend. Have fun and be safe.

[ak907hunter]

ok I was able to get out to the range today, first one of the 24.5s was clean then the other 2 did the same as my previous loads. as I shot through the others it did get better, the last one being the cleanest with only some discoloration of the neck and part of the shoulder. the factory hornady rounds leave a little on the neck so I wasn't worried about that one. I did not see any signs of high pressure so I think I will load up a half a box of at 25.1 and see how they look. I don't really understand why the first one stayed clean though.