SmallCaliberCentral

Hi. I have a Savage M12 in 204R and it is fantastic. Being a heavy varmint style rifle, it has virtually no recoil. After seeing the article in the latest issue of Shooting Times magazine on the 22-204, I built one. VERY simple.
I have several new Savage Axis rifles in 223Rem, so I used one as the format. I also have several spare Savage .223Rem barrels. At first, I was thinking about getting a new PTG reamer as the ST writer did.
Doing more research, I realized that a 223 AI reamer would do the same thing. It took a while, but the reamer worked perfectly. The 22-204 brass is easily made with one pass through a 224 dia carbide sizer button. The 'new' Axis shoots like a dream. I've only tested it with 55 gr FMJs for case forming. But the 1:9 twist Savage bbl should shoot 69 gr bullets just fine.
As usual, I hBN coat all my bullets and the bore of the rifle as well. This was only slightly more difficult than making a 223 AI, of which I have done several.

ron

Interesting, but since a 204 is a 222 Mag necked down to 20 caliber isn't a 22-204R just another name for a 222 Mag?

Congratulatoins n4u, as Toimini has mentioned, you have just "re-invented" the 222 Remington Mag, discontinued about 1978 or thereabouts and now basically moribund.

I shot the caliber for rats, chucks and badgers in a Sako Vixen for many years until brass got too scarce....excellent caliber, but I've just gotta ask: "Why"?

For a really interesting departure on the 204R case, the 6mm-204 would get my vote....featured in Hodgdons annual three years ago.

Sorry to disappoint you both. You are wrong. The 22-204 is basically a LONG 223 AI, The fireformed case has .013" LESS taper than the 204. In addition, the shoulder is pushed forward and has the AI profile.

You need to research your facts, and write to PTG as I did........

ron

So then what you're saying is that you now have an improved 20-222 Mag? If so, and as you've done all this research, two questions: What is the new powder capacity, and what do you expect in regard to 32 and 39/40gr velocities?

Personally I can't imagine needing any more velocity than what the 204 gives me, but then I suppose there's always someone wanting more. Not necessarily a bad thing, just curious why you'd go to the expense to gain such little expected gains.

First of all, the ctg in question is 'technically' called a 22-204R Improved (my term). Lane Pearce (and Dave Kiff, of PTG, called it, the .224 Ruger). It uses 204R brass, but the chamber is reamed to reduce the taper, as I said by .013". It is slightly longer than the 204R and has the AI shoulder, which yields longer brass life. It is NOT a 222 Mag. re-do.
Expense? Nothing. I have several Axis rifles in 223Rem. I also have several new, spare Savage 223R bbls. I also have a 223R AI (PTG) reamer and a machine shop.
I also have a LOT of 204R brass and thousands of different .224 bullets.

What is the purpose? As Lane Pearce said in the ST article, it's about driving heavy 224 bullets to the same velocity as 22-250s (of which I own 4) to the same velocity, with less powder. This should yield better bbl life. It's all about efficiency. I'm NOT trying to better the 204R velocity. Please read the post (and ST article) again. It's about .224 bullets.....
I would not try to disagree with either Lane or Dave.

Plus, it's fun. I can afford to experiment.

ron

Ron, okay, now I get it. Might be an interesting project for something just a bit different. How much more velocity do you expect from the case compared to a 223AI, which I also shoot. After re-reading your post, the ".224" aspect became more clear. In essence then, you've done up another 222MAI (222 Mag Ackley Improved), but used the 204R case.

I know Dave Kiff well; he's ground all my custom reamers, my wife speaks to him every day, but I've never heard of Layne Pearce......who is that?

Rick. I believe Layne is one of the steady writers for a couple of the gun mags.. They always favor the weapon/caliber they are writing/hawking.. You Know ???? Bill K ( I am BAD)

Yep, Lane is the Reloading Editor for Shooting Times. His articles have also appeared in Rifle Shooter magazine. I've been following him for many, many years. He's an Engineer by trade, BUT I am well aware about writers/magazines being self serving. ha ha

I didn't mean to imply I was 'inventing' anything new. I don't think that's possible anymore. Ever ctg ever, has been necked up, necked down, AI, etc.
I have been rechambering rifles for several reasons. I've shot way too many full power 454C, 445SM, etc, through the years and my right wrist is suffering. For example, I have purchased a few rifles in 7mm-08 since I can't shoot the XP 100, in that cal any longer. I also built a Savage rifle in 223 Short. Why? Because I was told it wasn't possible. It's basically a 221 Fireball with more case taper. I modified dies, etc, but in the long run, I just threw in the towel and bought a 221 FB reamer. Yep, I don't like shooting the XP-100 221 FB any more. The recoil isn't too bad, but the muzzle blast is another subject. ha ha

This 22-204r is kind of a bastard child. It is a 222 Rem Mag, AI, using a 204R case. I made it by using my 223 AI reamer on a Savage 223 spare bbl. Like I mentioned, it has .013" less taper than the 204R case at the shoulder and the AI 40 degree shoulder. I guess I need to get the chamber dimensions of all these wildcats and compare. However, my 22-204 (whatever) didn't even cost me the price of a reamer, since I already had the PTG 223 AI..... And the spare bbls.......

Next in the queue is a new McGowan SS bbl in 6.5 TCU that is going on a new Savage 223 SS rifle. Why? Because I can't shoot the 6.5 TCU T/C and I have hundreds of cases, bullets and the dies.......
Next time I fireform, I'll measure the water capacity of the 22-204R (???)

I'd like to start a new thread concerning bullet coatings, since I like to 'stir' the pot a bit. ha ha

ron

I sometimes have been known to stir the pot also. As for bullet coatings, the only one I have used is the red liquid that they get coated with upon impact with a living critter. Bill K

Bill K wrote:I sometimes have been known to stir the pot also. As for bullet coatings, the only one I have used is the red liquid that they get coated with upon impact with a living critter. Bill K

Touché

I remember reading an article years ago by Col Charles Askins. He was always trying to dream up some new wildcat. He said everytime he thought of some new super duper wildcat he'd find out that Parker (P.O. Ackley) had done it 40 yrs. before!

Jim White wrote:

Bill K wrote:I sometimes have been known to stir the pot also. As for bullet coatings, the only one I have used is the red liquid that they get coated with upon impact with a living critter. Bill K

Touché

I too like using the "Red Vital Lube" coating on my bullets. I have been known to dip my rimfire bullets in that stuff!!

Rick In Oregon, I just got back from the range. It has been near 80 degrees here and rained the last 2 days..... Today cleared up nicely. I didn't use my regular shooting range and table, but set up a new target, which laser indicated was 130 yards away.
The purpose was to fire form more brass and 'plink'.

So, I just measured the H2O capacity of the 22-204 (whatever) before and after fire forming. The blown out (er, expanded) cases measure exactly 2 gr more H2O after fire forming, using an RCBS digital scale.. I used 24.5 gr of IMR 3031. I also used 2 different bullets, some bulk 55 gr FMJs and some 55 gr Nosler BTs. 1/2 of the cases were already fire formed. I wasn't trying for min groups, just makin' brass and breaking in the bbl. Didn't take the Oheler and these loads are very mild. All bullets were in a small group (about 2") which surprised me since:
1. I was just lying prone and fire forming brass
2. quite a 'mixed bag' of ammo

Now, for my dumb question....
Is there a chemical used to reduce the surface tension of the H2O, to make measuring case capacity easier.
I had to weigh a bunch of fired and unfired cases to believe my readings. I believe air bubbles in the primer area (or the AI neck) were responsible for my 'issues'. ha ha

the fun continues.....

ron

It's been mentioned by folks doing the H2o measuring thing that a little dish soap or alcohol in the water will work to releave surface tension and bubbles.