My handloads stink up the entire West Coast...

[goosebrown]

OK no lathe for now...

Reset the sizing die, resized everything, trimmed to 1.835", chamfered, weighed brass into groups not more than 1 grain apart. Weighed each powder charge. Weighed each bullet. Reset the seating die to NOT roll crimp. Measured total length to 2.245, actually a little less on the Varmint Grenades. Chambered one with each bullet (doing two VGs and AMaxs) and they chamber easily with slight tension during lock up.

I think... think... these are the best I can do... We'll see tomorrow.

Thanks for all the help!

[FireBallGuy]

Get rick to tune you up onsetting up an FL die......he helped me sort out a problamatic remington REALLY quick.....In rick I TRUST!!

[OldTurtle]

Matt, sorry for the delay in answering your question.... I trim my brass to 1.838".... I have two Lyman trimmers that have been modified for use with an electric screwdriver... one is adjusted for my .204 brass and the other for my .223 brass, so they stay at the same consistent sizes...rather than having to reset them each time..They are mounted on the wall, right next to my load bench with a 'catch pan' underneath to catch the brass shavings..



There are various trimmers on the market and each has it's own strengths and weaknesses.... This set up just works best for me...

After trimming, if needed, I run each piece through my RCBS case prep station to de-burr and chamfer the case..

Bill

[goosebrown]

OK they chamber perfectly now. Slight resistance on the downstroke of the bolt handle. Feels excellent really.

However, it shoots bad as ever.

This is a Remington 700 SPS Varmint. It has no bedding and the barrel is not floated. I can't even run a dollar bill 1" down the forstock between it and the barrel. I am beginning to think I need to look at that as well. I watched a youtube of someone shooting a 700 SPS Varmint before and after bedding and they had groups that look a lot like mine before bedding. My gunsmith says it will cost about $60 so I am going to go in on Tuesday and talk about it. He also has some HS Precision stocks used which have the aluminum block in them so any advice there? Worth it? No idea of price, but used they shouldn't be bad.

Other option is to sell and buy a Savage

[M_D]

You said the rifle(s) shot decently with factory loads? Have you tried factory loads again to use as a benchmark for comparison?

1) what group size are you getting with your best handloads?
2) what distance, wind conditions, what kind of rest and bench? (e.g. front and rear sandbag on concrete bench)
3) what kind of scope, and are you positive that the bases and rings are tight?
4) if you scope has a parallax adjustment, have you got it adjusted correctly?
5) have you checked the action screws for proper torque?

I thought you had a Savage too, in addition to the Remington. In any case, whether the rifle(s) could be improved or not, I would sure believe that the factory loads could be improved on, but all handloads will not automatically be better. So if you take the rifle out and it still shoots 1" or under, finding the right handload combinations should give that or probably better but it might take several combinations to dial it in. My all factory Savage is capable of at least .20" 5 shot 100 yard groups with the best load I have found to date, it may do better with more development, or it may not. I also know that some loads I have tested are worse, I think 1" or a little larger. I did have to try quite a few combinations to get the best groups.

Sorry to ask so many questions, but all of these things matter and knowing as many things as possible will allow people to help. Of course your rifle might need some gunsmithing to bring it up to speed, but try to make sure that the basics are ok first.

Just to get you to thinking about it, having the rifle resting the same each time helps too. If you set up on sandbags or whatever, each time the rifle is fired the recoil moves the rifle back some (even with a 204). So, returning the rifle to battery each time helps the consistency. The same goes for your hold on the rifle, as well as several other things.

[OldTurtle]

Matt, If you can pick up one of the HS used stocks for a decent price, that may be one of the best things you can do for the Remington...I have one on my Remington 700 SPS Tactical (.223) and it's really accurate....

I just acquired a CZ .204 Varmint and it's exhibiting the same traits as you have described and I found that the stock was putting pressure right at the front of the forearm.... I've relieved that and waiting for the sealer coat to dry and will take it to the range tomorrow...I've tried about ten graduated loadings and a couple of 1" groups was the best I could achieve on my first trial..Hopefully the free floating will correct it and in case it doesn't, I ordered a bedding kit, but will wait to see what it's doing currently..

I also changed scopes on it as the one that came with it, I have no base for it's performance... I've now installed one that I've used before with good success...

Even though accuracy can be a frustrating situation,,, if (when) I get it worked out, I'll feel really good about the effort...

[goosebrown]

Yes. Brother has Savage Model 12. I have the rem 700. Loads are not working in both. Bought the savage used and the previous owner added a Hogue stock and I am not sure it has any bedding in it. Not at this location to check.

>You said the rifle(s) shot decently with factory loads? Have you tried factory loads again to use as a benchmark for comparison?<

Yes. They shoot about the same right now. Not really impressive at all. At first I thought they were better, but I am getting my loads to about factory...

>1) what group size are you getting with your best handloads?<

1.5" - 2". I shot a .2" 308 group in a McMillan custom job last week, so in theory, I can do ok, I may be the problem for flyers, but in general I am an OK shot.

>2) what distance, wind conditions, what kind of rest and bench? (e.g. front and rear sandbag on concrete bench)<

Front and rear sandbag on a reinforced wood bench. Heavy sucker. 100 yards. No wind to speak of. No range flags were even a little stiff...

>3) what kind of scope, and are you positive that the bases and rings are tight?<

Leupold MKIII I believe 8-20 I think... Old scope.... Hm... Seems tight...

>4) if you scope has a parallax adjustment, have you got it adjusted correctly?<

Unknown. It has adjustment. What would I see when right or wrong? Link to explanation?

>5) have you checked the action screws for proper torque? <

I removed the action and adjusted the trigger. I torqued it back in, but how much? What is PROPER torque?

As an aside I find this a lot that people talk about proper this or that, but never provide a baseline to work from. As a noob, I hate to ask this, but treat me like a teachable fool. Give me all the numbers that you like like where possible, esp trim length and OAL and so on... It really helps even if I don't use the numbers exactly, it gives me a scale to work from.

[goosebrown]

Matt, If you can pick up one of the HS used stocks for a decent price, that may be one of the best things you can do for the Remington...I have one on my Remington 700 SPS Tactical (.223) and it's really accurate....

Well that is good news. I think I am going to do that. I am really disappointed in Rem on this one. The stock looks great, but inside it is like an eggshell... Not much to work with.

For now I am going to concentrate on the stock and see what I can do. I can go back to the reloading later. I know that what I am doing now is painfully exacting and I think that I have worked out much of what I can there.

[M_D]

Matt, It sounds like you have the ability to shoot good groups, I hope you find the problem before long.


Unless it is broken, you have a nice scope. The distances on the parallax adjustment knobs or rings don't always match up with the actual distance. I bed the rifle on the bench in sandbags (anything that holds it perfectly still), and look through the scope without touching the rifle. Then I slowly move around watching to see if the crosshairs and target appear to move in relation to each other. I try to adjust it so as little movement as possible exists, to eliminate that amount of error. Some scopes have the adjustment marks pretty close, and others don't. I suppose it depends on the scope, and I sure haven't tried them all, but some show quite a bit a movement when not adjusted properly for the distance, which just adds that much to the group size unless you keep your eyes very consistently lined up with the scope.

As far a the proper screw torque for your Remington I don't know exactly, but I have seen cases where screws were either loose or obviously very unequally tightened, just thought I would mention it as I didn't know how much you have checked. I have seen cases also where rings and bases felt "tight" by trying to move the scope, but screws were actually loose or not very tight and it wasn't until the scope was removed that it became apparent.

I don't know if you have looked through the favorite loads thread or not, but here is link: http://www.204ruger.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=165

For consistently tight groups one load that works well for me is a Remington 1.840" long case, neck I.D. .199" (tight press fit, .202-.203" " is common), 28.8 grains IMR 8208 XBR, Sierra 32g seated to 2.300" length, fps is typically 4,140 in my rifle. I haven't seen a difference between primers, I have tried CCI BR400, CCI400, CCI 450, and Remington 7-1/2. If I seat the bullet .more than .005" less or more, I see a difference. I keep the powder charge +/- .02 grain (hundredths, not tenths). I use a RCBS beam and an Acculab digital scale and try to make sure they stay zeroed. If I use another 32 g bullet I have to tweak the powder charge. So if I change any one thing it will usually get worse, unless I can balance it out by changing some other factor.

The Remington cases I am using now are all over the place on neck wall thickness, up to .0045" out of concentricity. So I have sorted out the better ones (under.001") and turn the necks on the others, which requires a different bushing to get the same neck ID, or use an I.D. expander to size. I also make sure the inside neck chamfers are smooth and consistent. I also try to keep the inside of the neck cases consistent for gripping power, not some that are sooty, some clean to bare brass, and some with lube, usually brush them with a brass brush to clean although some people prefer a nylon brush ( I don't see them scuffing with the brass so I don't worry about it.) Thats for a consistent hold on the bullet.

To give you an idea of what I have found, if I use random cases where the neck wall can be zero to .0045" the group open up from .20-.30" to 1" or more. If the seating depth varies is changed from what I listed above it will also open the group up to 1"+. I don't know that this load will do especially well in most 204 rifles, it's just one that works for my 204. I'm sure the other guys here all have their routine they found works for them, and various rifles have their own likes and dislikes. In my opinion, there probably isn't a magic case length or seating depth except maybe for certain rifles and then consistency, like usual, can pay off.

I hope you get it figured out, maybe some stock work is what it will take. If it makes you feel any better I have a new 17 HMR that shoots poorly that's getting sent back in hopes the manufacturer feels sorry for me and fixes it.

[goosebrown]

My gunsmith sold me a used HS Precision stock for $150. I reckon if that doesn't fix it I can sell it on ebay for as much as I paid. Aluminum bedding block and the barrel doesn't touch the forestock. I can't see that this wouldn't help. Going to the range tomorrow.

Also got new calipers with a dial this time instead of the cheapo digitial. I am tired of buying batteries. And a comparitor coming from Midway.

[goosebrown]

Back from the range. The stock did it. With my handloads and the 32g VMAX I got every group as a single hole... sometimes a long hole, but a single. Best of day had on flyer 1/2" out, but the rest weren't even a jagged hole, just one little hole. Just perfect...

Now it's time to get back to trying different loads and starting from scratch now that I know the rifle is not crippled.

Thanks everyone for the help!