SmallCaliberCentral

Notice I put an or in there on my first post. Stock Vmaxes gave me .75 or less groups, when I was working on loads RL I stopped getting velocity increases with 32's at around 25.5 yet the accuracy decreased. Never tried Varget or TAC. According to Ramshot you can push 4100 with TAC but it did not group worth a darn with 34's so why bother. I have my go to load and powder, no desire to waste range time experimenting.

HoundofSC wrote:

Fred_C_Dobbs wrote:Or you could invest the same time and effort into a bespoke load that would shoot better than the factory load. My handloads shoot groups half the size of factory loads, or better.

Chronograph the factory loads and you'll have three of the four pieces of the puzzle. You've got a bullet you know your barrel likes, a jump you know that bullet likes, and an MV that suits your barrel's accuracy nodes.

Pick any suitable powder, load to a matching MV, then tweak the charge weight to adjust for differences in your chosen powder's pressure curve to find the center of that accuracy node. Then tweak seating depth.

the problem is Fred is that you will get pressure signs before you get the velocity of the VMax factories, and/or the accuracy will go south

Details, details ....

Yeah, you're right, I hadn't thought of that 'minor' complication, which shows how long it's been since I've fired a factory load.

Rick in Oregon wrote:Without confirmation from the manufacturer or an authorized scribe, how are we to really know if it's the actual same stuff?

According to "Hodgdon's 2012 Annual Manual" it is the same stuff. In the lead article entitled Eraser, writer Bryce M. Towsley notes of the Hornady ammo that "Hornady was using a proprietary new powder" "that allows for high velocity [and] also reduces copper fouling." He then states: "Hodgdon is introducing this powder to the handloader and calling it CFE223." (Page 10, emphasis added.) As the manual is published under license by Hodgdon, I'd consider this confirmation that it is one and the same.

My order for CFE223 finally arrived and I'm eager to try it in a supremely accurate Savage that has resisted my lapping efforts and still copper fouls at the mere sight of handloaded ammunition.

Guy;s give re-loader 7 a go it will give you all you need.

shootingcharley

jwc41 wrote:According to "Hodgdon's 2012 Annual Manual" it is the same stuff. In the lead article entitled Eraser, writer Bryce M. Towsley notes of the Hornady ammo that "Hornady was using a proprietary new powder" "that allows for high velocity [and] also reduces copper fouling." He then states: "Hodgdon is introducing this powder to the handloader and calling it CFE223." (Page 10, emphasis added.) As the manual is published under license by Hodgdon, I'd consider this confirmation that it is one and the same.

I picked up that same 2012 manual and read that article too, I'll try to pick some up next time I'm at Cabelas.

But I did sent an inquiry to Hornady and a guy responded by saying they cannot give out their proprietery powder useage but suggested I try some Vihta Vuori N 140. But this is not the easiest to find I and I don't care to cough up another $50 for hazmat shipping alone.

Darkker wrote:Just to clear things up a little, The "Primex" powder being bantered around SMP 746; is a General Dynamics ball powder; being made at the St. Marks, FL plant. Likewise the "Copper Erasing" compound is a Tin Dioxide that has been in the Win 760 &Win 748 powders for (according to the MSDS I have) for at least 20 years.

After doing some digging, and knowing how the WC's lines run from St. Marks...
I would suspect that you COULD draw the conclusions that the CFE223 is Win 748 "slow lot". Whereas the SMP 746 COULD be considered 748 "fast lot".

Thanks Darkker, you would'nt have to twist my arm very hard to believe CFE223 is just 748 in a different bottle.
Been tellin people that for years. Copper got you down? try some 748.
Used to run 5-600 naked rds through my Sav 204's with 748 in comp without so much as a patch the entire season.

jo191145 wrote:... you would'nt have to twist my arm very hard to believe CFE223 is just 748 in a different bottle.

Don't risk your arm.

After putting together some trial loads, I ran 748 through the powder measure that was set to throw 29.0 grains of CFE223. The same volume of 748 weighed 26.3 grains, nearly 10% less. It's not the same powder.