SmallCaliberCentral

On the subject of fliers, I have found with certain scopes that if the eye relief and alignment are not consistent, especially on max power, it may could play a role with fliers.

Jim,

Yup, cleared it up.

Good point on max power, too. Especially around 20x and above for me. Gets pretty touchy.
I've found that I don't have much use for anything above 16x.

Got 200 rounds of Norma brass. This is addictive.

Kirk

Have loaded and fired some of the Norma brass. Results were about the same as what I have been seeing previously but this is new brass. Unfortunately I have not been smart and have been full length sizing all of my brass every time. Will neck size this new brass and load up some more for testing for next weekend. Still have the goal of a half inch group at 200. May not make it but it is certainly a goal.

Kirk

Live long and shoot many bug holes my friend.

Try the Lee collet dies with the fire formed brass.

Yup, like Boomer says, try the Lee collet die. Not expensive and works better than you would think. Will keep your bullet runout below .002". Even the little bullet seater that comes with it is better than my micrometer seater.

One caution with the Lee die. The pin is soft and will bend as it slides down the outside of the case if you don't line it up with the case neck. Not a biggie. Just requires a little attention to your process.

Use one powder per outing or at least clean when changing powders. Easiest way to create fliers.
Its also a good way to create tight groups that cannot be repeated.
Its not just a tube with squiggly lines in it. Its a precision projectile delivery device.
Treat is as such and it will teach you new tricks.


On the other hand,,, Once a barrel has told me which powder it TRULY prefers theres very little use for a cleaning rod.

Another way to create groups that can't be repeated (at least without starting over) is to do what I just did.

I measure all my bullets from base to ogive and sort them in trays. When I start playing with seating depth, I pick a given length of bullet and do my seating tests. Once I find my tightest group, I have a BTO (base to ogive) length for reference. When I run out of bullets of the reference length, I just pick another and add or subtract that length from my reference for a delta to adjust my seater.

Well, I found a nice group and loaded up a few more verification rounds with a bullet having a different BTO. Blew the group to heck. I'd forgotten to readjust my seater. To top it off, I didn't note which BTO I'd used for reference. ARRRRRRGGG!!!

Nothing is more frustrating than fliers. I have 6 varmint guns and two with PacNor barrels. I find the biggest enemy I have is ME. I just need trigger time to set my consistency of doing the same thing each time. Then I need patience, and cannot shoot well on targets If I feel hurried.

I usually find that if I am getting fliers, it is self imposed. Watched my shooting partner go thru the same thing and he has now developed his technique to where he shoots small groups. Again, it takes patience and trigger time. If you are an accomplished shooter, you probably know this already

Planning on getting back to the rifle range this weekend. Spent time with pistols last weekend, maybe a week off will make my eye better.

I suspect that I am not getting consistent alignment between my eye and the scope. Shouldn't be much of an effect but when you are trying to achieve .5" groups at 200 it may be my problem. Will try to concentrate on consistent holds this time.

Kirk

kirk --You mentioned you were going to go from full length resizing to neck sizing and that is a good step for saving wear and tear on your brass. The suggestion to use a Lee collet neck sizing die is one way to do the neck sizing. Using a Redding Type S neck die is a great way to go as well. Another route to go with resizing casings is to use a Redding Type S full length sizing die. If you aren't familiar with them, they size the body and set the shoulder back to whatever setting you use, but have the bushing for sizing the necks.

I use the Redding Type S full length sizing dies for my Nosler brass and for the brass I formed from WW .204 Ruger brass down to .17 Remington. If I had the money, I'd use the same type of dies for my other varmint rifles. However, using the Redding Type S neck sizing dies and then using a FL die to set the shoulder back when necessary works well too.

Fox, I ordered the Lee collet die from Midway. Looked at the reviews for the Redding and decided on the Lee before reading your post.

Loaded up some of the new Norma brass to fire form the cases. Used 25.5 grains of Benchmark, Rem 7 1/2 primers and the Midway Dogtown 34 grain bullets.

Was certainly surprised, didn't expect much for accuracy since I didn't work up a load. Figured I would use a light load and cheap bullets since the goal was to form the cases. Posted the best 5 shot group below. I think that it is time to try some more of these Midway bullets. This is the first time I have loaded them.

Kirk