Load help

[deltahunter]

I have been baffled with my 204 loading. I have a Remington 700 SPS stainless with a Bell and Carlson Alaskan stock and Leupold VX3 4.5-14x40 scope with a Timney Calvin elite trigger. I was given 6 boxes of factory Hornady 32 grain ammo when i bought the rifle, and it has always shot that ammo good. I saved all the brass and finally finished my last box off last week..... time to work up a load. After researching a bit, i decided to go with the 39 grain Sierra as my bullet, the once fired Hornady brass, Remington 7.5 primer, and 24 grains of RL10X to start off. I loaded 24 grains, 24.5 grains, and 25 grains. At 100 yards, my 3 shot groups were the size of a pie plate. Literally. By far the worst groups I’ve ever seen in my life. I sat in awe for about 15 minutes. I know rifles can be picks and prefer certain powder or bullets, but a 10” group at 100 yards is baffling. I’ve been loading for 15 years, so I’m not a beginner. Do you guys have any ideas or suggestions?

[skipper]

Way too many variables. Your load data seems appropriate so there's no telling what's going wrong. Try an experiment. WW cases fully prepped, 35 Gr Berger, over 25.1 RL 10X with Remington 7.5 primers. That combination usually has good results with most rifles. We've seen some really small groups with that combination during our annual 5 Shot Challenge.

What twist is your rifle?

[deltahunter]

Remington 700s are advertised to have 1/12 twist barrels. I haven’t patched my to verify the exact twist. I’m going to load a few more of the 39s with different powder and give it a try. If the groups don’t shrink significantly, then I’ll start working with the 35 Berger’s

[skipper]

The worst killer of accuracy in a 204 is the dreaded carbon ring in the throat of your rifle. Plenty of threads dedicated to that subject. That alone can have such an adverse affect that it ruins an otherwise perfectly good bore. Nothing that a little bore paste can't cure. That 6 boxes you shot could be just enough to get that problem started.

Just as a complete guess but also check your muzzle. If the gasses are not equally distributed between the lands and grooves at the crown as the bullet exits the barrel that can affect 204 accuracy.

[deltahunter]

I cleaned periodically (every 30-40) rounds since the rifle was new. I’ll run some 40x through it and clean again before testing the new loads. I hope and pray that it works and the rifle shoots the 39 with acceptable accuracy.

[skipper]

Years ago I bought a Remington XR-100 in 204 Ruger and took it out and shot it like I stole it. At first I was impressed with the accuracy. Then it would throw fliers and the groups started opening up. One day, I was cleaning it and my late wife called me to dinner. I had just put a patch, soaked in bore cleaner, on my rod and pushed it just into the lands at the end of the chamber. So I left it while I went to eat. Later that night I returned to the filthiest patch in what I thought was a clean bore. That's when I discovered the dreaded carbon ring. Took some doing but I got it out. That stuff is almost like porcelain. Fliers went away and the groups tightened back up to a box of 25 rounds roughly stacked up under a dime.

[jimreed1948]

I agree with what Skipper told you. After you know the barrel's clean then proceed on with your testing.

Use a Lock-N-Load gauge, Sinclair seating depth tool, etc. and start with the bullet touching the lands and start backing off.

When I was looking for a load for my 20VT, I loaded up 5 rounds starting with the ogive touching the lands. From there I started backing off the lands by .02 or .03 and loaded 5 more rounds each time I backed off. In all I had loaded up 20 to 25 rounds.

Each set of rounds fired was on a different target so I could keep up with how it was grouping and make notes accordingly. I never shot all 5 rounds. I always saved the last round so if that group of 4 I just tested worked out well, then I had the 5th round to saved so I new exactly what the measurement was.

[deltahunter]

Update: i again cleaned the heck out of my barrel. It’s clean. I loaded 3 different loads with the 39 blitz. It’s still shooting pie plate size groups and some bullets are key holing. It’s driving me crazy because the 39 blitz is the bullet i had my mind set on. I can only guess that the 1/12 twist barrel isn’t truly 1/12. So now i have to decide which bullet to try next.

[Bill K]

First, why not check the twist of your barrel, with the old rod and tight patch system ?
Second, give the 24 & 32 grain lead free bullets a go. Hornady and Nosler. Or even the 34 grain Varmint Nightmare bullet (which is really a cup and core bullet by Nosler) See how they group in that rifle. Bill K

[Rick in Oregon]

For a rifle shooting 'shotgun' groups, when everything else seems to be in order, I'd be looking at the crown, bedding, mag box, stock touching the barrel, and all the other little things that destroy a rifles accuracy.

The 204R cartridge is known for both speed and accuracy, so there's a gremlin in your rifle somewhere, it just may be an issue identifying exactly what the issue is, but it sounds like it's not your specific load, most likely mechanical.

[skipper]

What he said. Something's just not right.

[deltahunter]

I checked the twist rate 4 times this morning and came up with the same thing each time... I’m having a hard time believing it, but I’m coming up with 13 3/4” twist... Remington advertises a 12” twist, but i checked it 4 times and came up with the same thing each time. I guess this could explain the key holes at 100 yards.

[Bill K]

Run a few shots, if you have not, for groups with the lighter bullets and tell us what grouping they give. Then if they also do not group under 3/4 inch or better. Re-barrel the rifle with a 1/11 twist. Bill K

[deltahunter]

UPDATE. I called Remington and explained that the twist rate on my rifle was a slow 1/13 instead of a 1/12. They sent me a prepaid shipping label and i returned the rifle. They sent me a brand new rifle! It was delivered today. That’s awesome customer service! Hopefully it will shoot well.

[Bill K]

1/12 will work with a good number of the bullets, But a 1/11 is even better. But you should be happy with the 1/12 using bullets up to around 39 grain in the 204R. Keep us posted.