Temperature sensative 204 ruger powder Help!

TEXAS222 · Post by **TEXAS222** » Tue Dec 09, 2014 10:23 pm

Hi everyone. I could really use your help on choosing a powder for my AR 204 ruger I just finished. It has a Shilen 24" 1-9 twist and I hope to shoot 35-40 gr. bullets. My concern is this dang Texas weather. Most of my shooting is when it's 90 to 100+ degrees and the gun never really gets to cool down setting out in the baking sun. I love velocity and wanted to use xterminator or 2230 but I'm not sure it will hold up to the heat. Here it might be 70 in the morning and 100+ by mid day. I sure would appreciate your suggestions. I will list the powders I have on hand to choose from. Many thanks for your help. JD Southeast Texas
x-terminator
2230
8208 xbr
H 4895
Benchmark
H 4198
RL 10X

TrapperDan · Post by **TrapperDan** » Wed Dec 10, 2014 8:07 am

Mornin JD:
of the seven powder you listed, the only two that I use extensively is 8208 Xbr and H 4198. To quote Hodgdon reloading manual-
8208 "totally insensitive to changes in temperature". H 4198 "elements were added to make it extremely insensitive to hot/cold temperature"can't help you rest as I don't use them.Dan

Nor Cal Mikie · Post by **Nor Cal Mikie** » Wed Dec 10, 2014 8:26 am

You said "I love velocity". Ever consider backing down on the powder charge to give yourself a little "wiggle room"? You load ammo at 70*, step outside to go shooting and it's 100+*.
If you back down a little to the lower accuracy node, you may not run into the "sensitivity" problem. Less pressure on your brass and it will last longer also.
I load everything mid range. That way, I've got room to go up or down depending on the conditions. Brass lasts longer and I never have to "beat the bolt" open with high pressure loads.
"You don't have to be fast to be accurate".

I load just about everything with Accurate Arms 2230 or 2460 powder. Work it till you can't get anymore out of it. H4895 is a also good "go to" powder.
JMHO, Mike.

TEXAS222 · Post by **TEXAS222** » Wed Dec 10, 2014 7:55 pm

Thanks for the feed guys. The only one I did try is 8208. Started 2 gr below max & the next to lowest load did give me a 3 shot 0.303 group. The more I went the bigger the group. Max was about 1 inch. And for the 2nd reply, yes sir I always try to give myself "wiggle" room. If possible, I like to load & shoot when it's hot so I'll kind of know where I'm at. Does your 2230 seem to react to a hot barrel in any way? Thanks a bunch guys. JD Southeast Texas

bigfellascott · Post by **bigfellascott** » Wed Dec 10, 2014 11:21 pm

On generally keep my ammo in a shady spot to avoid exposing it to unnecessary heat and any issues that may come from it, I live in Australia and it can get hot here in Summer (I use ADI powders 2206H and 8208 and can't say I've seen any issue re temperature.

TrapperDan · Post by **TrapperDan** » Thu Dec 11, 2014 8:25 am

TEJAS JD wrote:does your 2230 seem to react to a hot barrel in any way?

I'm a little confused by your question. I was assuming you are asking about a powder that was insensitive to changes in air temperature. Your later comment indicated you are looking for a powder that would maintain accuracy after the barrel got hot from continued shooting.

what am I missing here.

Bill K · Post by **Bill K** » Thu Dec 11, 2014 9:19 am

Thought the same thing.

But I would add into your question and thought about heat, hot barrel and amount of shooting and length, that if you sit down and fire/blaze away as it appears you do or want to do,

Even your 204R will, in that AR, get so hot in the action and barrel that you are going to go through barrels and burnt out throats within just a few hundred rounds. Hot barrels, hot chambers do not make for good life and accuracy. Just something to think about.

Bill K

TEXAS222 · Post by **TEXAS222** » Thu Dec 11, 2014 6:08 pm

TrapperDan/Bill K, thanks for your reply. What I was trying to say is sitting in the sun in 100 degree heat shooting PD's, the barrel really never cools down well. Sometimes a loaded round may sit in that warm/hot barrel 5 minutes before firing. That's what I meant about 2230 reacting to a hot barrel. I usually take 3 guns & trade off after about 20 rounds. I'm a target shooter/hunter and would never shoot my guns as fast as I could. Makes no sense to do that to any gun. Hope I cleared myself and thank ya'll a lot. Have a nice safe holiday season everyone. JD Southeast Texas

Bill K · Post by **Bill K** » Thu Dec 11, 2014 6:20 pm

That helps claify your question. Most of us do not leave a round sitting in the chamber and closed for any length of time while shooting out in direct sun and heat. Shade where you can, keep ammo in a ice/cool chest and pull out just before you are ready to fire that round. A little slow, but your powder will be at it's lowest and most likely safe temp, just prior to actually firing.
I usually have some frozen water bottles in a chest, for cooling and also for a cool/cold sip, as it melts, and I want a drink for myself. Just a couple of ideas and suggestions. Bill K

Jim White · Post by **Jim White** » Thu Dec 11, 2014 11:25 pm

Put your ammo in a cooler, it does work. H4895 is also a temp stable powder like H4198 and Benchmark. Not sure about 8208XBR but I've hard that is as well. In any event, even temperature stable powder heats up and changes when a round is sitting inside a hot chamber and a little dinky 204 round doesn't take long to heat up.

HTH,

Rick in Oregon · Post by **Rick in Oregon** » Fri Dec 12, 2014 9:03 am

I remember three guns cooking off during the war (the Vietnam one).....a M1919 .30 Cal Browning MG, a M60 7.62, and right above me, a Browning M2 .50 Cal one day. Of course that was in 100*+F SE Asia heat, right after a string of FA fire, so the chambers were scorching in all three MG's.

Lesson learned though, since then, I've been very aware of a hot chamber when in an active PD or rat patch here. A hot chamber is a hot chamber, and a chambered round can and will cook-off if it's hot enough. One good reason to never take a 22-250 to a rat shoot, and why a 20VT, 17FB or 204R are much better choices, but if you machine-gun a bolt gun in the rat patch, well, doesn't matter if you're using temperature sensitive powder or not.

This was indeed a hot day in the rat patch, but no cook-off's!

Good advice above....keep your ammo in the shade or in a cooler, and never keep your bolt closed on a live round in the rat patch......leave the round in the loading tray with the bolt open so air can circulate through your barrel and cool it, and when Skippy pops up for his flying lesson, close the bolt and engage the rat.

All of this is even more applicable to guys who shoot AR's for rats....another reason I always shoot bolt guns for this pastime. (But everything has it's place, right?)

frittsk · Post by **frittsk** » Fri Dec 12, 2014 9:01 pm

Anybody know how stable CFE 223 is?

Jim White · Post by **Jim White** » Fri Dec 12, 2014 10:34 pm

I don't think that is one of their [Hodgdon] "Extreme" line of powders; if so it would most likely be more sensitive to temp changes.

TEXAS222 · Post by **TEXAS222** » Sat Dec 13, 2014 7:06 am

I won't try to mention all your names, but thanks all of you. I will remember and use the information you suggested. And Rick, very impressive pictures, nice. Thanks everyone and again have a nice safe holiday season. Keep your powder dry! JD Southeast Texas

cosh · Post by **cosh** » Sat Dec 13, 2014 8:59 am

New IMR 4166 might work too. Data on Hodgdon web.

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