Nosler brass problem

[Tokimini]

I recently purchased 200 rounds of Nosler brass from Brownells and wish I didn't. The stuff is expensive garbage. I was shooting a standard load that I have used for years in Win, Hornady and Rem brass with zero problems. I was using CCI BR4 primers. Of the 15 rounds I shot with the Nosler brass, the primers blew completely out of 7 of them. I tried the same loads in Win brass with no problems. Has anybody had a similar problem? Needless to say I sent Nosler an angry email.

[futuretrades]

Tokimini, please don't take this the wrong way. Anytime you start using a different component with your reloading procedure, including a different brass, the best way to start using new components is to start with a lower powder charge, and work your way up. Just because one load works in 1 brass manufacturer, does not always mean that the same load works with all different manufacturers of brass. To me anyway, you made the same mistake that myself, and I would be willing to bet, that some others here, have also made. The brass in question may be defective, no one can say for sure. But it is always up to "us", as reloaders, to use safe practices in our hobby. Also, when you seated the primers, did some of the primers seem to seat with way less pressure than the others? You did not mention the powder charge, or bullet you are using.

[Rick in Oregon]

Tokimini: Kevin is right.....whatever load that was appears to have been excessive, as from the pic posted, I can plainly see ejector marks on the case heads......one of the first signs of an overload in that particular rifle with those components. If you used a chronograph when testing your 'new' load (good idea), you most likely would have noticed quite a spike in velocity.

Another thing to keep in mind when using a different brand of brass is to measure the water capacity compared to your "old" brass. I'm betting the Nosler brass has less internal capacity than what you've been using, hence the much higher pressure indicators.

If you used your standard "pet load" with a different/new brand of brass without working up the load again, well, this is what can and does happen. I've seen this exact event before more than a few times since I started handloading in 1968. It is most likely certainly NOT the fault of the brass used IMHO.

Not sure how long you've been handloading, but remember one of the first tenants of the hobby is that when you change ANY component, it's best to work up the load again. Your recent experience bears this out.

[Bill K]

Not to repeat or be critical, but all the books on reloading will tell you when you change anything, from primer, brass, powder, etc. you start lower and work up. It is not that Nosler brass, in this case, is garbage, it is that it is different from what you worked the previous load up in, therefore you changed the combination. It appears, in this case, that the pressure spiked and you had the results you did. At least you and your rifle are safe and sound. Bill K

[Nor Cal Mikie]

Ejector marks, BIG TIME! Something else to take a look at. Headspace, meaning the brass was too short for your chamber, (before it got fire formed) case head not held tight against the bolt face, round is touched off, primer starts to back out than gets reseated as it hits the bolt face and in most cases, deformed.
We learn as we go. Been there, done that and learned my lesson. And, got a couple of tee shirts!

[Tokimini]

You are all right, my bad. I got a little complacent I guess, but I think I might have found the problem. I measured the case length on the ones with the blown out primers and every one was 1.818" or shorter. Everything longer than that was fine. I checked the SAAMI specs and the case length for the 204 is listed as 1.850 - .020. Does that mean the minimum case length is 1.830? It seems more than coincidental that every round with a case length less than 1.820" had the primer blow out. I have a set of Go, No Go gauges and the headspace checks out OK.

[Nor Cal Mikie]

Just a headspace problem. (brass too short for your chamber). Not a barrel headspace problem.
Funny how sometimes it has to hit us between the eyes for us to take notice. If the primers are tight in their pockets and the brass hasn't been turned into junk, load them back up and set the OAL "long" (bullet into the lands). That will hold the case head against the bolt head when fired. May take once or twice more firing to get the shoulder blown out. Make sure you don't push it back (the shoulder) too far when resizing or you'll be running into the same problem again. You'll know better next time.

[Tokimini]

Just a headspace problem. (brass too short for your chamber). Not a barrel headspace problem.
Funny how sometimes it has to hit us between the eyes for us to take notice. If the primers are tight in their pockets and the brass hasn't been turned into junk, load them back up and set the OAL "long" (bullet into the lands). That will hold the case head against the bolt head when fired. May take once or twice more firing to get the shoulder blown out. Make sure you don't push it back (the shoulder) too far when resizing or you'll be running into the same problem again. You'll know better next time.

I don't think I want to use these again.

[Nor Cal Mikie]

If the primers fit tight in the pockets, no reason you can't reload them but, it's up to you. I know the feeling. It's your choice. Just watch the next batch so it doesn't happen again.

[Jim White]

I agree with what the other have said regarding th changing of "any" component.

WRT to case length measuring; and correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the headspacing is set off of the case shoulder. If you happen to have some unfired rounds of this brass, measure that distance and if it is 20-thousands short, thats a problem. But, just because a case is 20-thousands short in OAL doesn't mean the headspace is 20-thousands short for a cartridge that is headspaced off of the case shoulder. From my experience most brass is a little short in OAL but the head space off the shoulder is pretty close, still a little short to allow functioning, but no where near 20-thousands.

One thing that can cause isses is the primer depth seating. Make sure they are fully seated. Some of these hand-held primers fail in that capacity as they wear.

[Nor Cal Mikie]

The headspace "IS" set off the shoulder. So if the shoulder is too far back from resizing or before fireforming, the case can move forward when the firing pin hits the primer. That leaves a gap between the bolt head and the case head. Case gets pushed forward in the chamber by the firing pin,round goes off and the case is not held tight aqainst the bolt head so the primer can back out. If that same "short round" had the bullet set at a jam into the lands, it would be held against the bolt head. Once the brass is fireformed, problem goes away. And the case gets slammed against the bolt face and you also get ejector marks and you think "over pressure". (when you really don't)

[Rick in Oregon]

And the case gets slammed against the bolt face and you also get ejector marks and you think "over pressure". (when you really don't)

I respectfully disagree.

In actuality, when you have a short case (case shoulder to chamber shoulder), you'll usually experience a case separation or incipient case separation. The case is indeed driven forward and then backwards due to expanding gasses, and the case separates at the case head. The ONLY thing that causes ejector/bolt face marks on a case head is over pressure, plain and simple.

I've separated enough cases from early incorrect sizing, and boo-boo'd on over pressure loads myself over the years.....enough to easily recognize the issues the pic the OP provided.

No matter how you cut it, the cases shown in the above pic were damaged by over pressure.

[Bill K]

Same here, as Rick mentions, experience (personal, me too, been down that road) and volumes of reloading books and tests, back up that injector marks, expanded case heads and primers pockets, are the result of high pressure, for a given case. It matters not the brand of brass. Each load needs to be worked up for the given case and your rifle.. Never just start throwing a given load into another brand or reworked case ( i.e. LC, etc) you can and will run into trouble, in time. Be safe and sane in all your reloading, for you and your rifle's sake. Bill K

[Tokimini]

And the case gets slammed against the bolt face and you also get ejector marks and you think "over pressure". (when you really don't)

I respectfully disagree.

In actuality, when you have a short case (case shoulder to chamber shoulder), you'll usually experience a case separation or incipient case separation. The case is indeed driven forward and then backwards due to expanding gasses, and the case separates at the case head. The ONLY thing that causes ejector/bolt face marks on a case head is over pressure, plain and simple.

I've separated enough cases from early incorrect sizing, and boo-boo'd on over pressure loads myself over the years.....enough to easily recognize the issues the pic the OP provided.

No matter how you cut it, the cases shown in the above pic were damaged by over pressure.

Then why don't the Nosler cases that are over 1.820" in length show any signs of overpressure, like ejector marks or blown out primers? It's just the ones that are shorter than that. They were loaded exactly the same.

[Jim White]

The headspace "IS" set off the shoulder. So if the shoulder is too far back from resizing or before fireforming, the case can move forward when the firing pin hits the primer. That leaves a gap between the bolt head and the case head. Case gets pushed forward in the chamber by the firing pin,round goes off and the case is not held tight aqainst the bolt head so the primer can back out. If that same "short round" had the bullet set at a jam into the lands, it would be held against the bolt head. Once the brass is fireformed, problem goes away. And the case gets slammed against the bolt face and you also get ejector marks and you think "over pressure". (when you really don't)

- WRT headspace; sounds like we're saying the same thing. For my 204's, I couldn't jam a bullet into the lands if I tried; just to much free-bore.

- As far as the ejector marks on the case heads, I agree with both Bill K & Rick. Been there and done that. May not always break a case head the first time out but the life of the brass sure was decreased significantly. I've seen that too and in addition to the case marks usually there is hard bolt manipulation present as well.

I have several Wilson case gages that have helped me with that issue.