Short barrel Weatherby

[meltonden]

Hi I'm new here been looking for a while so thought I would join. I bought a Weatherby Vanguard 204 R and have had a suppresor fitted and the barrel shortened to 20 inches. I have started to reload for it. I am fairly new to this reloading as well. I got it to shoot a nice group less than .5 at 110 yrds with 32 grain V max and Benchmark 2 and 748 and now have got CFE 223 to try,have the weight for powder over the Man cave. I then borrowed my friends Chrono and got 3240 fps which is I think too slow. I have since bumped the load of powder up and I am now getting 3700 fps which I think is still too slow and the groups have opened up to 1,25 at 110yrds. I see most guns on here are 24"+ I was wondering if any had a short ( 20") barreled gun and if they have what powder and load do you use and what fps are you getting? thanks Den

[Bill K]

First off, Welcome to the group. I can not help you a lot, with the 20 inch barrel in the 204R, but on my one 20VT, which is a 20 Bullberry on a TC, I shoot 18.1 grains of H4198 and 18.1 of RL 7 and get around 3600 plus and 1/2 inch groups, all day long.
In my 22 inch 204R, I use 27.8 H4895 or 25.8 of RL 10x. All these loads group 1/2" consistantly and with the 32 grain bullet. In the 204R I am at a average of 3800 plus. Might get more speed, in either, but accuracy is my first choice and these work for me. I would think you could do about the same in your 20 in 204R.. But I would work up to what I am showing you works in my rifles. Bill K

[204cat]

weatherby vanguard in a 204 ruger very nice. .5 at 110 yards with 32 grain vmax is a good group. i load down towards the low end and believe they fly 3400 fps to 3600 fps. i load for accuracy. one of these days i need to chrono them. what you need to do is find their sweet accuracy spot. reading through 6mmbr on short barrels i recall reading that short barrels have a slower fps with the same powder charge. looking at your data of group size looks like you went past the sweet spot. ie .5 vs 1.5 . faster is not always more accurate.

welcome to the board. there is a lot of good info here and someone can answer your questions.

[Sth Oz Dan]

G'day Den
I have a Ruger Hawkeye with 20" barrel.
When I was testing the 32 V-max's my technique was very green. The results I saw didn't impress me but I will revisit them one day. I've since built myself a nice steady rest, lightened my trigger, tightened the action screws properly, and refined my techniques at the reloading bench - consistency is essential.
I used ADI's BM2 - same as Hodgdon Benchmark.
min load 26.0gn - avg 3500fps
max 27.7gn - avg 3800fps
the 27.4 charge gave me a 5 shot group at 0.95". Last 3 of those gave 0.34"
Couldn't replicate that on 2nd test unfortunately.

The shorter barrel definitely gives slower speeds than book, and other loads from this forum. Generally around 150-200fps slower.
This is my 1st and it's been a STEEP learning curve, and I'm loving it. I'm making all my mistakes on this one, then getting a longer barrel next time and getting things right from the start.

Don't give up on it. The shorter barrel still has it's niche - great for in the ute - much easier to swing around and poke out the window.

[Bill K]

That is exactly why I have the little TC with the bull 20 inch. It is a dream to carry, comes around nice in the Jeep and shoots plenty well, in the little 20 VT cal. I prefer 22-24 inch barrels, but would not part with this little 20 inch. Bill K

[meltonden]

Hi, Thank for the replies, I may have to put up with the low velocity but I agree if you don't hit it no amount of speed will help, I am keen to try this CFE 223 and see if this will give me both? Sth Oz Dan I have read very good reports about the Hawkeye. Have you loaded with Nick Harvey's book? I don't have his book but I see his loads are quite a lot more than most! This is my first 204R I have only been reloading for a few weeks for my AR 15 in .223 but that has a 24 inch barrel and loves almost any loads and projectiles.

[Sth Oz Dan]

Sth Oz Dan I have read very good reports about the Hawkeye. Have you loaded with Nick Harvey's book?

I admit it - I have no manual. I've just been going by ADI's load data on their website. O.A.L. I started with 2.260" - near enough to factory loads (but since working out my chamber lengths with various projys, this will change), and primer choice I trusted the 204ruger.com brotherhood and went with rem7.5.
Have tried CCI400 and had no problems, but others have.

Quick note on primers - I gained more than 100fps with a one off 3 shot load with CCI400 against rem7.5
But velocity spread was much lower with 7.5's

[meltonden]

I have used fed primers in the AR and a few have been blown out! loaded a bit hot, not my reload! I used Rem 7.5 (due to info from here) from then on no problems so far. I have used CCi 450 and had no problems with them can't tell if the velo is different as did not have the chrono but will try it, My best load so far is 39gr SBK over 27.2gr of W748, Rem 7.5 4 touching and 32gr Vmax over 28gr W748 about .5 both at 2.350 max mag length. The real problem is the AR will shoot the Barnes Varmint grenades 36gr at 3750fps and good groups. I am enjoying the problem and as you say I will work it out. Would you stick with the 39gr SBK or 32gr Vmax or both.

[Sth Oz Dan]

Would you stick with the 39gr SBK or 32gr Vmax or both.....
..Barnes Varmint grenades 36gr at 3750fps....

Tough call. If the 32Vmax and 39BK both shoot well, and you know where they will hit - with or without adjusting scope, then I'm sure you'll find an excuse or niche for both. Or go with whatever is cheaper.
I assume you mean 26gn VG. I got 3750fps on the min load (BM2) and up to 4000. I guess your just not gonna get those 4000+ velocities without a longer barrel. I'll get back to the VG's after I find my sweet spot with 35Bergs coz I only tested 1 powder, and had a sloppy technique.

[Bill K]

Why is 4000 plus so important. A slower accurate bullet striking the correct place, is better than a faster bullet in the wrong place, plus no animal/varmint will tell the difference between say 3800 and 4000 FPS. Bill K

[Tokimini]

I agree with Bill K. My sole concern is accuracy. As long as I can get 5 shots to group at .25" or better I don't care how fast the bullet is going.

[meltonden]

Thanks everyone for the input. I know and agree if the accuracy is there then fps come second. I love the 204R because the noise and the recoil allows me to shoot where I shoot ( suppresor) and see the impact. I think I would be happy with 3800 but 3250 is a bit too slooooow. One of the main plus points for the 204R is its flat shooting, at 4000+fps its flat from 50 to 300 yrds give or take a nudge. At 3250 it aint quite so flat but if you don't/can't hit it 4000 gets a puff of dust but no Cigar. I like the idea of a very fast bullet ie 32gr Vmax but I like the stability of the SBK 39gr at longer range so will see if the rifle will shoot both at poa. I am still trying to get both accuracy and velocity so will try cfe223 and then maybe??? I am also enjoying this reloading and will be getting a longer barrel!!! I feel a new rifle is on its way and this one will be kept for the Ute. Dan the 36 VG were in the AR .223. Any comments on a Savage weather warrior 24 inch barrel.