Help with next loads please

[Hedge]

The only time OAL by base to tip is important is for magazine fit. Always measure from base to ogive for your seating depth when tuning your load. As long as it feeds from the mag, you're good to go.

[Sth Oz Dan]

I don't have a comparator? - is that the tool that measures to the ogive?
But I imagine leaving the seating die in the one spot will give a consistent measure. Not perfect, but good enough for now I suppose.
Hopefully I can get all the mistakes out of the way with this rifle, then do it right next time round - or find more tedious mistakes to make

[Joe O]

I don't have a comparator? - is that the tool that measures to the ogive?
But I imagine leaving the seating die in the one spot will give a consistent measure. Not perfect, but good enough for now I suppose.
Hopefully I can get all the mistakes out of the way with this rifle, then do it right next time round - or find more tedious mistakes to make

Dan
Bullets out of the same box,will not have a consistant length,so seating them to the same COAL will not insure the distance from Ogive to lands will be the same.I have found as much as .015 difference.This means,if you want consistant seating depth in relation to the lands,you will need to sort the bullets.That's
why you need a comparator.Even match bullets can show a big variation.Just another thing to shrink the groups.Others are weighing bullets and cases.Weighing the completed round, for sorting,doesn't give good data.

[bow shot]

... I'm confident that I'm reasonably consistent with the process...

Good job 'Dan... you said the right word: "confident". So now I say "Aye and time to play at the loading bench!"

[bow shot]

As I load a few different seating depths, I'm noticing that (with the seating die in the same place) some OALs are different.
With a bit of fiddling I've managed to get a few different 5 load groups with OAL +/-0.001"
But as I was doing this, I was wondering - It's probably more important to keep the measurement to the ogive consistent right??
ie-Get the seater working roughly to the desired OAL then DON'T TOUCH IT??

I think you nailed it Dan.

If those VG's are plasitc tip, then the length of the bullets (base to tip) will likely vary a lot. But I believe that you'll find that the variation is much less base-to-olgive. That was my observation with both SBKs and VMax(es).

I think you'll find that with whatever seater you are using, the cartridge length base-to-olgive will be much more consistent than it is base-to-tip...

So my advice is: don't adjust your seater between rounds to make the cartridges have equal base-to-tip lengths... doing that will cause the base-to-olgive length to vary between rounds. 'And as the brethren have said, it is the base-to-olgive dimension that really matters. Only adjust your seater between load recepies.

[Hedge]

Yup, Hornady makes one that attaches to one jaw of a caliper. If you don't have one and still want to experiment with seating depth until you get one, there is a way. It's round-about and tedious, though.

Briefly, you load 4 rounds and set one aside and mark it. Shoot the three and record the group. Adjust your seating depth again and repeat the process until you find a group that you're satisfied with. The loaded 4th round of that batch is your tool for setting the seater. It isn't a pretty way to go, but it will work.

When you get a comparator, just measure round #4 and record the measurement.

[Sth Oz Dan]

Hedge, I think that's what I'll do, but I was thinking of doing 7 rounds - shoot 5, 1 aside to measure later, and 1 I'll measure OAL to help with winding down the seating die for the next 5/7 rounds. If I reduce OAL on that by say 0.01", then that's gonna be the same reduction on the base to ogive length.
Meanwhile, I'll warn the minister of finance there's another parcel on its way A comparator is absolutely necessary isn't it

Bowshot, the Varmint Grenades are hollow point. I found (for the few rounds I loaded) that when the seater was left alone, OAL varied by about +/-0.003"
Not too bad, but now I've got that variation in base to ogive because of making OAL standard. I can reduce most of the longer loads so as not to waste them, then reload a few to just under magazine length.

I'm hanging to pump out a decent amount of consistent rounds that I can rely on. Had a fox taunting me every day since we got back from holidays on 21st. It showed up again yesterday with a friend. But I'm down to about 10 rounds - 3 different loads, only got a fence post to rest on, and they sit about 180 yds away. Just not confident and steady enough. Got another vantage point I can put the bipod out on but that's another 80 yds away.

[bow shot]

oops... well, so much for my plastic tip lab report, LOL!

My method for getting a preferred OAL was very similar to Hedge's. This may do for you until you get your comp.:

1) Set the seater so that the OAL base to tip of your cartridge is "spec". (yes this is rough... but at the start it all relative anyway...)
2) Record the OAL of the DIE with a caliper.
3) Now persist in measuring the OAL of the die as your dimension to be measured.

[Hedge]

That should work, Dan.
Don't know if you've done it yet, but I make sure my seating die plug catches the ogive and not the tip of the bullet. I usually end up drilling the tip hole deeper and then polish the radius. I've had some dies that seat the bullet by pressing on the tip. Not good.

[Sth Oz Dan]

. . . I usually end up drilling the tip hole deeper and then polish the radius. .

I remember reading this a little while back. You wouldn't know for sure if the Lee seater pushes on the ogive or not?? Suppose I could mark a projectile with ink and see where it rubs off

[Hedge]

That would depend on the bullet shape. Marking it with a sharpie will work. Put it in and give it a twist with your fingers.

Sometimes you have to drill it out to a slightly larger diameter. Just remember, though. If you change the seating die after modifying, the measurement won't be the same.

Edit...
Just realized my last sentence might be confusing. Meant to say that once you modify the die, settings you record for your loads will apply to that die only. That's because you've changed the point at which the die contacts the bullet. However, as long as you use the comparator to measure OAL, and set your die, it won't matter.

[bow shot]

I know the Wilson dies push the olgive, (that's what I now use). I'll check my old Lee when I get home. I can see it being a big issue if it does just push the tip. Then the measure-the-die-not-the-cartridge method would be in vain... dang.

[Sth Oz Dan]

Seems to be making contact where the projectile is about 0.14" in diameter

[Hedge]

Sounds like you're good to go, as long as the tip isn't being contacted.

Been posting over here: http://www.predatormastersforums.com/fo ... ost2090695 with a guy just getting into reloading and we've been discussing load development.
Might want to have a look.

[Sth Oz Dan]

Interesting reading on OCW Hedge.
When I started load development I just picked a powder, then loaded from min to max (from manufacturers website) in .3gn increments. Then chose a tight group and worked around that in .1gn steps.
The section on POI staying about the same for 3 consecutive charges certainly is a different approach to what I took - should've joined the forum sooner and asked all the dumb questions.
Another mistake made and lesson learned.
Would it be wiser to do 5 shot groups for OCW? or leave this for later fine tuning?

Didn't get any super impressive results from seating depth variations. And I've noticed there's very little load data for 26gnVGs on the favourite loads thread.
I might load a few of the better group to keep me going with the bunnies and foxes for a bit and work on some 39BKs - factory rounds grouped okay for me (ones without the grooves).

Before I start on them - What's a good method for choosing the best powder? I could stick with BM2, but while I'm starting out again, might as well see if something else works better.

I've read this method somewhere:
-Choose 3 different powders. Load only 1 round of each charge from min through to max in regular increments (I guess .2-.3gn for .204) for each powder. Shoot 1st powder onto 1 target using same POI (working from lowest to highest charge and checking for pressure signs of course). Shoot 2nd and 3rd powder onto separate targets. The best powder for that rifle is supposed to be the one that gives the tightest group through the whole range of charges.