need some advice here

[doobie]

i have been studying the favorite loads info , i have noticed that very few people use berger 35 gr bullets and very few use ww 740 powder and very few use cci sm. rif mag primers .
am i looking in the wrong direction ?
some one will probably say that ww740 is to slow of a burn rate , then why do so many people use blc2 ?
any opinions will greatly be appreciated
thanks , dan

[Rick in Oregon]

doobie: As you might imagine, there's no firm quantitive answers for those questions.

The Berger 35gr bullet is excellent, accurate, and a favorite with the coyote pelt savers, just expensive. There's more suitable, less expensive, more frangable bullets available for chuck or ground rat shooting like the V-Max and B-Tip.

I assume by WW740, you are referring to WW748, an excellent powder, and one of the best for the gas system of the AR platform. It just appears many 204 owners have found other powders in that general burning range that just work better for them with the bullets they're using. Nothing wrong with WW748 though, and it just may be the "magic" powder for the bullet you plan to use. You'll never know unless you try it in your rifle. By the way, WW748 is right in the perfect burn rate for suitable 204 powders, and meters like water through a powder measure.....perfect for high volume rat loading.

As far as any certain brand of primer, not really much use for mag primers in the 204 case unless you're using ball powder that may be a tad hard to get consistent ignition with standard primers, or very cold weather shooting. To date, in four decades of handloading, I've never felt the need to use a magnum primer in any case in the 223 family, not even with ball powders, but that's just me.

It's not a bad idea to gleen information from others on the internet to see what's working, but a "seldom used" powder or bullet combination just may be the "magic load" for your particular rifle. The only way to find out, is to try it and maybe surprise yourself.

[surfclod]

From my readings of this forum I came to the unscientific conclusion that bullet most preferred for pure accuracy is the 35 grain Berger, while powders and primers are purely personal preference depending on availability and such.

While I wanted the higher BC and frangibility of the 39 grain SBK's for varmint shooting I also got some Bergers purely for 100 yard paper punching to keep me enthused over the winter. However my first experience with the Berger's showed that they need some load development before they print bugholes. I got lucky with the 39 Gr SBK's as the first powder I tried (H4895) gave good results, but the same powder showed signs of pressure when used with the Bergers and the accuracy was not there.

I am sure I can get the Bergers to shoot well but need to try a different powder.

Who knows, your combination may be great right away in your rifle, (like my experience with 39 SBK's) or it may take more work to get it where you want it, (like it seems the Bergers will be for me).

Only testing the loads in your rifle will tell.

As for magnum primers I have never tried them except when it was all I could get last fall and I used about 100 till I could buy the regular CCI primers. I just used my same load data (it was well below max with no pressure signs) and I never noticed accuracy difference. That being said I only used them in the field so have no real idea as to the effect they may have had on accuracy.


The easiest thing is to first try with the components you have, even if they are not the norm. If your rifle likes it then you are laughing, if not, then I would start by buying the components that most have been having good luck with.

[acloco]

...and I am on the other side of the coin.

I use CCI 450 magnum primers for the thicker cup.

...and...do a test with your rifle/chrono/primers.




205M 205 BR Win CCi400 CCi41 CCI450 Rem 7.5

3970 3926 3928 4043 3946 4085 3903 4051
3983 3976 3950 3983 3939 4071 3944 3897
3995 3975 3984 3989 3959 4082 3963 3931
3979 3935 3975 4048 3963 4053 3939 3944
4012 3954 4008 4002 3954 4040 3913 3928

Average 3987.8 3953.2 3969 4013 3952.2 4066.2 3932.4 3950.2
STD Dev 14.52 20.33 27.65 27.28 8.70 17.24 21.70 52.70
Variance 210.96 413.36 764.8 744.4 75.76 297.36 471.04 2778.16

27.8 gr H4895
32 gr VMax
2.250 OAL
Winchester Brass (new)

[jo191145]

I've earned more cheap plastic trophies with Win-748 and 35 Bergs than any other combo I've tried. And I've tried just about everything.
I quess you could say its my favorite load.
Its also the first powder that outshot horn 32 factory ammo in my original barrel. No easy feat actually. That tube shot 32 factory real nice as long as I cleaned it every group. I've found 748 is just the opposite. It likes the bore well fouled and takes a while to come around again if you make the mistake of cleaning. You'll never catch me taking a clean barrel to a comp if I'm using 748. Made that mistake once. I've had up to roughly 400 rds through the tube without cleaning and brought home a trophy tho.

Fed 205's are the most consistent groupers with 748 for me. CCI -450's come in a wobbly second with inconsistent accuracy from lot to lot.
I had one lot of old 450's (red box) that really rocked. Tried a new lot of 450's (blue box) and they went wild. Found yet another old lot in a small gunshop. They did quite well but 205M's beat them out for accuracy.
450's usually look better on the chrono. Feds look better on the 200yd target. ES does'nt mean much at 200yds.
In round robin testing no other primer comes close to working as well with my particular load so I stick to the Feds.

Heres the rub. 748 works best with FL sized brass. Don't ask why but I've proven it to myself many times over the years.
Necks need to be brushed clean with no lube whatsoever remaining if you require lube. Likes a tight consistent neck tension.

If you can do that brass prep work up to 29.2 gns with the 35's. Shoot at least two five shot groups at 29.2. Good chance the second group will be impressive
One last thing. Forget about letting your barrel cool between groups stuff. 748 is designed to burn cooler than most. It likes a warm barrel. Not smokin hot but warm. Good Luck

[Jim White]

All of my 204's shoot the 35 Berger just fine, as does the 39 SBK. But it seems to me, anything the 35 Berger does, the 39 SBK does it just as well for a less cost. As far as 40 VMAX, my CZ tolerates them, the Remington deplores them. I haven't tried any other 40 grain (or heavier) bullets.

Regarding primers, I just use Remngton 7 1/2's since I have so many of them.

I've tried mostly Varget, H4895 and RE15 powder, all are capable of producing outstanding accuracy. Theres better velocity with RE15, followed by H4895 and then Varget. I just recently tried some RE10x and was quite impressed. I'm loading up some Benchmark here later on today to try out on Monday/Tuesday of next week.


HTH

[OldTurtle]

I used W-748 for several years, as it was reported to be the original powder developed for the earlier AR-15s (of which I had several, one in .204) and have been very happy with it, still use it on a limited basis.

About a year ago, I tried some of the Ramshot powders and found them to burn a little cleaner and they meter like water through my equipment...It turned out that the powder is also slightly less expensive than the W-748...

Since I worry about the potential for "slam fires" while charging an AR, I use magnum, or military. primers in those rounds intended for those weapons.... As a side note, they also seem to produce tighter groups in both of my .204s, with the 39gr SBK bullets.

I've just recently loaded 100 Berger 35gr bullets for testing and as stated earlier, they are more expensive, but they will primarily be reserved as "hunting" rounds, rather than PD rounds..since I've read good reports about the DRT factor with Coyotes..

[jo191145]

Old Turtle

I agree. X-Terminator just may be the powder that replaces 748 for me. Tac seems to work good also but my bet is on X-term giving just a smidge better accuracy. Haven't had much time lately to test. Gettin lazy I quess. It outshoots N-133 in my 6ppc which is just plain wierd

IMO the 35 Berg can produce better accuracy at shorter ranges than the BK. For pdogging that extra edge is meaningless and the BK should provide much better explosive results on little critters. The 35 has a low BC. It loses its edge in accuracy pretty fast in the wind too.

[Jim White]

IMO the 35 Berg can produce better accuracy at shorter ranges than the BK.

I suppose it just depends on the rig. Both of my 204's shoot tight groups at 200. And as long as I can hold it there, they will all touch, I just figure thats as good as it gets.

I had an AR-15 once that for what ever reason just flat refused to shoot Hornady 75 BTHP match bullets. It was terrible, no matter what I tried. I was getting rwady to flog the thing (get rid of it) but I decided to try SMK 77 grains. WOW, it shot good, so good I fact had I not of known better I would of swore the thing was rebarreled.

Nothing the matter with Berger bullets though and I'll give them a try sometime and it's doubtful I'll be disappointed. Been thinking about trying some of those Barne's 26 grain bullets too.

HTH