Bench shooting for groups

[bmf1321]

Hey guys. I've been working up some loads to test from a bench to see how hey group and was wondering what tips/ techniques anyone has to offer for a relative beginner. I went out yesterday and tried but got some groups with random shots kind of off the mark. I was wondering if it might be "human error" or if this is normal. Should I not take into consideration the 1-2 "off the mark" shots when deciding on the most accurate load?

- I shot 4- 5 shot groups off a steady rest with minimal human interferance. My rest is not top of the line but can be adjusted to the target and manually fired.

- My trigger is a factory Ruger model 77 lightweight version.

- I removed and cleaned the bolt after each 5 shot group and also ran a bore snake through the barrel twice after shooting each group.

- I also waited until the barrel was cool to the touch to begin firing the next group.

- All shots were fired from 100 yards.

I think I may be able to get better groups by adjusting the trigger to pull at a lighter weight and get a better rest, like a lead sled but don't see that happening anytime soon due to a tight budget.

Any advise or is this normal? I attached some pictures of the groups. I was shooting a 45 gr. Hornady SP with H-322 powder. From the looks of things I think accuracy will be greatest at 22.5- 23 g. of powder and will concentrate future efforts within this range.

Thanks in advance.

Brett

22 g



22.5 g



23 g



23.5 g

[Rick in Oregon]

bmf: Before any discussion can ensue, can you tell us if the rifle has been bedded properly with attention to the recoil lug? Is it sporter or varmint weight? Is the barrel free floated or does the stock touch it in the barrel channel? What scope were you using, and did you check all the action and scope mounting screws? Is the rifle factory stock right out of the box?

There are folks here that would be glad to help out, but you don't give us much to go on in regard to the actual rifle being used.

"Just the facts mamm........"

[bmf1321]

the rifle is factory stock. The rifle is the shorter and lighter rifle with the 19" barrel which I believe is free floated. I'm not sure what a recoil lug is? The scope is mounted tight and is a Leupold VX-II 6-18x40. Thanks.

[jo191145]

What can you tell us about the high flyer in your 23gn load?
Was it the first shot after using the bore snake?
Are you using a solvent on that bore snake?

The 45 hornady is not what I would consider an accuracy bullet. Nonetheless you got four out of five acting nicely. Now all you need to do is move that flyer down into the group. Easier typed than done
With H-322's fast burning rate you'll need to be extra fussy about weighing charges. Small variations can throw one out of the group.

You should shoot at least one fouler after cleaning the barrel before shooting for group. Its almost a given that the first shot or two out of a clean or cleaner barrel will shoot to a different POI.

Forget the lead sled. I would not consider using one unless I was working with an elephant rifle.
Buy a rear bag and whatever front rest you can afford.
Keep it cheap. Why? You have a sporter rifle not a bench gun. Therefor I would hope its main use is as a walking varminter. The bench is just to develope an accurate hunting load.
My first set of bags were some cheapies from Wal Mart that cost $9.00 for a front and rear bag.
I still use them on sporters and milsurps that will not fit my 3" BR rest.
If your shooting a varmint gun my answer would be different.

You might be better off not using that snake at all. They may work to give a quicky cleaning in the field but I highly doubt they'll clean the barrel fully after a days shooting. Never tried one myself and theres reasons for that.
You do need to use a rod, brush, patches and THE PROPER solvents after a day at the range.

Wind flags. Surveyors tape will work for cheap.

[bmf1321]

Thanks for the help. Makes sense. Next time I'll waste a couple then shoot for groups. Basically, this is a walking gun. I had some 322 powder and 45 grains and wanted to put them together since I have them and a javelina tag to fill in a couple weeks. Doesn't hurt to keep the groups tight. Thanks again.

[greystone]

JO
Whats your reasons for not using the bore snake? I use the brushes,patches.and foam but I also use the bore snake and I think it does a pretty good job. Actually the more I use it the more I like it. Just wondering Dave

[jo191145]

grey

The main reason I do not use a snake is patches run through the barrel once and their life span is over.
I see no reason to use anything that removes carbon/copper from a barrel twice.
If I ever see a BR shooter using one I might change my mind. Before I do I'll make sure I saunter over to his bench and make some inquiries

A bore snake can remove carbon from a barrel. Sounds good but they're not very effective on removing copper fouling. Removing carbon and exposing the copper underneath just promotes more copper to be deposited.

I quess you could use two snakes to avoid mixing solvents. One for carbon and one for copper. Still leaves you with a filthy rope after the first use.
My question would be for anyone using them why not just use the proper equipment?

As I said I've never used one. I'm judging them on expieriences I've had using patches.

[OldTurtle]

bmf1321, when I'm working up loads and shooting for groups, I'll run a series of loads starting 1 full grain below the published max load and increase 0.2gr for 10 rounds of each charge weight.... all charges are trickled for consistency. Seating depth is kept at the max that will fit in the magazine on all of them...

That gives me 5 separate loads to try and if there are any really good groups, I'll load another 10 on either side of that load to see if I'm missing one there.... The charge weight is the only thing I will change on the first series of 5 shot groups.

I have a lead sled and I will use it with the rifle tied down to the frame and the sled tied down to the bench.... I'm trying to eliminate as much human factor as I can and I'm really careful about even pulling the trigger...

If I don't find a good group with those loads, then I'll start playing with the seating depth on the remaining five rounds that were made originally, but that is the only factor that I'll change at that time...Eventually, by being methodical and consistent, I'll find one or two loads that really work well for my rifles..

The small cases for the .204 and .223s are really affected by a small change in the charge weight and IMHO, the 0.5gr increments can potentially let you miss a really good load..

As far as cleaning, I'll swab out the barrel with a rod and patch (with Hoppes #9) between groups and only use a bore snake when I'm out shooting Prairie Dogs or between stages at an action match with my ARs..

[Jim White]

I do pretty much the same as OldTurtle and more often than not, you'll find one that works. Now, the most accurate and the highest velocity may not always coincide together.

Another thing I've heard, its hard to get these 204 handloads to fly as fast as the factory stuff. I haven't chronographed yet because of the wet NW weather so I can't comment on that, yet.

HTH