new brass - off center flsh holes - Problem ?
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cshooter
- Senior Member
- Posts: 138
- Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2007 4:59 pm
- .204 Ruger Guns: 77 MK 2 standard sporter
new brass - off center flsh holes - Problem ?
I just got a few hundred new Winchester 204 brass and noticed some of the flash holes were off center in the primer pocket. Seems like around half the bunch is this way. Maybe I just never looked close enough to see it before. Will this adversly affect accuracy ? And if so what can I do about it other than throwing the bad ones away ?
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Bunnybuster
- Junior Member
- Posts: 97
- Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2008 1:50 pm
- .204 Ruger Guns: Ruger No. 1
Re: new brass - off center flsh holes - Problem ?
If possible mesure how far off center they are, if you can.
Second, call Winchester, and let them know you have a problem, and the batch number if you have it. And, see what they do.
Personally, I would expect them to replace them.
Please, keep us informed on what happens.
As to it effecting accuracy: It certainly will effect accuracy. The guys that are seriously loading for accuracy uniform the flash hole for a reason, to get the highest degree of uniformity from round to round they can. If the flash holes are off center far enough you can see it by eye, then you add a random factor into things when you fire. That can't help but cause random velocities.
That said, whether it will be enough to effect accuracy at a usable level depends on what you intiend to do with the rounds. But, since the 204 is a varmint round, and you are reloading for it, I would presume that accuracy matters to you, or you wouldn't own a 204.
Second, call Winchester, and let them know you have a problem, and the batch number if you have it. And, see what they do.
Personally, I would expect them to replace them.
Please, keep us informed on what happens.
As to it effecting accuracy: It certainly will effect accuracy. The guys that are seriously loading for accuracy uniform the flash hole for a reason, to get the highest degree of uniformity from round to round they can. If the flash holes are off center far enough you can see it by eye, then you add a random factor into things when you fire. That can't help but cause random velocities.
That said, whether it will be enough to effect accuracy at a usable level depends on what you intiend to do with the rounds. But, since the 204 is a varmint round, and you are reloading for it, I would presume that accuracy matters to you, or you wouldn't own a 204.
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cshooter
- Senior Member
- Posts: 138
- Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2007 4:59 pm
- .204 Ruger Guns: 77 MK 2 standard sporter
Re: new brass - off center flsh holes - Problem ?
I reloaded a couple dozen rounds out of one bag and the accuracy seemed to be as good as my older reloads of the same load, with the exception of one flyer. So I don't think they will hurt much, I hope, but I'm not going to open the other bags untill I get ahold of Winchester Olin corp and see if they can be replaced. I mostly coyote hunt with my 204's so if they stay in a 2 " circle at 200 yrds, they'll work. If anybody else has any experience with this, let me know. Thanks. cshooter
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Bayou City Boy
Re: new brass - off center flsh holes - Problem ?
First off: Folks who uniform flash holes do it to insure uniform flash hole size and thus more uniform ignition characteristics. Uniforming primer hole size has nothing to do with the exact location in the primer pocket where the hole is.
Quite a few years ago I received a batch of 220 Swift brass with primer holes off centered slightly in the primer pocket - you could visually see the problem. To see if it was an issue which might affect accuracy, I loaded some of the brass with a favorite load and shot them against the same load in once-fired brass without the problem. I used a chronograph to assist in the evaluation.
Net result:
1. Both sets of brass shot to the same point of impact at 100 yards.
2. Velocity variations between the two sets of brass were non-existent from a 20 shot statistical point of view and the
standard deviation of the brass with the off centered flash holes was actually better than the once-fired brass.
Conclusion:
Though somewhat limited in data, I concluded that it does not appear that the issue is an issue at all.
I suppose if you were an avid BR shooter searching for the elusive one hole group (And I don't mean just a group with all shots touching) and you were shooting an $8K rifle with elaborate reloading tools and techniques, then you might at least evaluate the cause/effects further to determine the net effect, if any.
From the perspective of hunting and even PD shooting, if you miss an animal in the field, I wouldn't try to blame it on off centered flash holes. It was probably a host of other issues, including you, that caused the miss... And not off-centered flash holes in the brass.
JMO - BCB
Quite a few years ago I received a batch of 220 Swift brass with primer holes off centered slightly in the primer pocket - you could visually see the problem. To see if it was an issue which might affect accuracy, I loaded some of the brass with a favorite load and shot them against the same load in once-fired brass without the problem. I used a chronograph to assist in the evaluation.
Net result:
1. Both sets of brass shot to the same point of impact at 100 yards.
2. Velocity variations between the two sets of brass were non-existent from a 20 shot statistical point of view and the
standard deviation of the brass with the off centered flash holes was actually better than the once-fired brass.
Conclusion:
Though somewhat limited in data, I concluded that it does not appear that the issue is an issue at all.
I suppose if you were an avid BR shooter searching for the elusive one hole group (And I don't mean just a group with all shots touching) and you were shooting an $8K rifle with elaborate reloading tools and techniques, then you might at least evaluate the cause/effects further to determine the net effect, if any.
From the perspective of hunting and even PD shooting, if you miss an animal in the field, I wouldn't try to blame it on off centered flash holes. It was probably a host of other issues, including you, that caused the miss... And not off-centered flash holes in the brass.
JMO - BCB