RCBS dies

[berettabob]

In a recent thread Glen mentioned that he was using the much eschewed RCBS dies. I have used them for 40 years and have never had any problems and get great accuracy out of my reloads, so my question is: What's wrong with RCBS dies? I know that certain bench rest and specialty dies probably have tighter tolerances, but what is being referred to? Thanks

[glenn asher]

I don't have any real complaints against them, but lots of people seem to think that Redding is the only brand around. I've used RCBS dies for quite awhile, and have had problems, but nothing like the troubles I've had with Lyman's dies, for example. I DO have a set of really ancient .221 Fireball dies from RCBS that were made when cases were another set of dimensions, apparently, as they are utterly useless for current Fireball cases. I also have a set of Lee .221 dies that work perfectly with the newer case dimensions.

I think most folks complain about the runout in typical RCBS dies, it's not really a factor for me, and what I want to do with my rifles, (shoot stuff, at as close a range as I can manage.) For me, anything better is just wasted money.

[skipper]

I'll confess, I started this issue. I bought an RCBS Gold Medal Match seating die back when I first bought my XR-100. I used it to seat my first .204 hand loads. I was sorting rounds and one of them fell over and rolled across the dinner table. I watched as the tip of the bullet wobbled up and down as it rolled. I measured the concentricity of those first hand loads and found as much as .012 TIR. That's way too much run out!!! I later bought a set of Redding Comeptition Seating and Full Length Sizing dies and the run out problem was solved. The most run out I get with the Redding dies is .001-.002. That's much more like it.

This is the die that was giving me run out problems.


Eleminating run out got rid of my flier problem. Every group I shoot that has a flier can be traced back to inconcistent neck thickness or plain run out. The RCBS die I was using was the one with the little loading window cut into the side of the die body for feeding rounds. I really like the design but, that die sits on the shelf now collecting dust. Do yourself a favor and buy the Redding or Forster seating dies with the sliding sleeve design. They seat bullet straight most every time. The RCBS die couldn't seat bullets straight in the case neck. If you want the ultimate in seating bliss, buy an arbor press and Wilson dies. Run out is held to .0005 most of the time. The K&M arbor press even comes with an optional strain gague to measure seating force.

K&M arbor press with strain gague in the foreground. Redding Competition Seating die in the Rockchucker in the background.


I guess it all depends on your application. For hunting a TIR of .003-.005 ought to be sufficient. For range/target shooting a TIR of .001-.002 is acceptable. If you don't have a concentricity gague, roll your loaded rounds across a flat surface and watch the very tip of the bullet. If it wobbles, that's run out. Get a concentricity gauge. Fliers will disappear! A neck turner will help out also. Just cut enough to take off the high side for factory rifles.

I go the whole nine yards when I'm loading for my custom rifle. Neck turn, uniform primer pockets, uniform flash holes, weight sorting brass and bullets, run out. etc. If accuracy is what you're after, consistency from round to round is the ticket.

[Rick in Oregon]

I'll agree with Skipper here, and my experience over 40 years of handloading resulted in the exact same set of circumstances as he describes. I've still got some RCBS dies on the shelf that are used for some of my wildcat and standard hunting calibers, but since I changed over to Redding Comp dies for all my target/varmint rifles, TIR is now held below .002", and usually closer to .001 to .0015".

The result is better groups, more first shot hits on small rodents at extended ranges, and a bigger smile on my mug. If starting out, I'd recommend Redding right out of the gate. If experienced and setting up for a new caliber, see above.

[berettabob]

Many thanks to the respondents on my query. Great answers, consise and with photography to help explain the process and resultant changes. I really appreciate it and it is what makes this a great site. I now know a lot more about total indicated runout (TIR) and will follow your recommendations as more accuracy is what we all desire. Thanks again.