New Redding dies

[ulen mn]

My new Redding competition bushing neck sizer and seating dies came and now I have some questions on what to do next. I have 80 cases of once fired brass (Hornady lot #'s Mixed up my bad ) that I have preped primmer pockets, flash hole, tummbled, after tumbling the case mouth was alot bigger than my other brass that was not tummbled (.242) so I got a .233 bushing and a .224 bushing I have sized all 80 with the .233 and then agian with the .224 and checked the necks for runout I came uo with this-

.01 and over -2 cases

.000 Thru .0025 - 5 cases

.003 Thru .00599 - 24 cases

.006 Thru .00899 - 49 cases
I did a quick edit here so that you can see I grouped the messured cases into increments of .002

my dial indicator is only .001 incraments kinda guessed on the inbetween numbers, what should my next step be to get them messurements down to .002 or less for neck runout or what is everybodys maximum for neck runout that will really affect my bullet seating runout and accuracy??? Would it be neck wall thickness and neck turrning? and would this have to be done after every firing? All other fired brass that has not been polished runs around .000 to .002 roughly once again lot # are mixed up in this brass so I dont think my chamber is to farout of round or is it? Or should I just laod and shoot the way it is get new brass for the postal shoot and other target shooting and start over (keeping these lots in order of course ). Any sugestions would be helpful!! thanks in advanced Ulen MN

[Hawkeye Joe]

I'm not sure where you got the numbers from "BUT" They all have less than .003 of runout except 2. I would scrap the 2 at .010. If I was you, I would use them in the field and pick up some Norma brass for the postal shoot. Very good stuff and ALL the primer pockets are nice and tight after 4 firings. I'm more impressed with the Norma than the Lapua I have. Go figure

[ulen mn]

I got the numbers by rolling neck sized brass on a RCBS casemaster gauge. I also forgot to mention that this was factory loaded hornady brass. fired once, that I have accumalated before I started to hand load. Maybe I am figuring the runout wrong if you say it is already at .003 or less I took for granted that the runout was the amount that the dial indicator moved when the casing or loaded round was rolled, hence if it fluxuated .004 you were .004 off center axis of your rifflling? Or do you take that number and divide by 2? That is the only way I can see that my current cases would be .003 or less.

[skipper]

When you roll the round on your RCBS Case Master you get a number that represents the total amount the round is off center on both sides of the centerline. In other words you measured both the hi side and the low side. The actual run out (TIR) is measured from the centerline of the round so you should divide the number your measuring by 1/2.

[WHISTLEPIG]

Well I stand corrected. I always thought that the total movement of the indicator was the total amount of run out. I guess I have been producing rounds much better than I thought. That is the best news I have had in quite a while. Thanks Skipper!

[ulen mn]

Thanks Skipper that make me feel better is there anything else that I can do to improve these more as in neck turning or is that basicly just for making the neck tention more even??

[Hawkeye Joe]

What I meant is that all but 2 moved the indicator needle LESS than .003. Why the base line jumped up to .006 -.00899 might just be the mixed lots with different case expansion. With quality brass you needle movement will be down to .0015 or less. Skipper is correct on the divide by 2. If your needle moves .003, you only need to push the bullet .0015(half of .003) to get it back on center.

[skipper]

I'm the one who needs to stand corrected. Whistlepeg was correct, TIR is the Total Indicated Runout which is the full value the needle is deflected. If you spin a round and the needle moves from .000 to .010 then your TIR is .010. The amount the round is off center is .005. I don't usually use the term TIR. To me, runout is the amount off the centerline. Maybe next time I'll read the post more carefully.

My advice for keeping runout to a minimum is to get a concentricity gauge and find out where the problem starts. I measure the runout on new brass before and after I size it. I start with the shoulder to make sure it is concentric. Then I move out to the neck and make sure it is concentric with the shoulder. Basically, you need to check every step before and after each operation. This is really an eye opening experience. You will find that some of the equipment you use is inducing runout and will need to be replaced or you'll have to find some way to minimize the effect. A concentricity gauge can be your worst nightmare if you're not ready to take that step in your reloading routine.

My brain is currently fried from work. Texas is transitioning from an Open Electrical Market to a Nodal Market. I know that doesn't mean squat to most of you guys but, it sure is a headache for me. I'm responsible for insuring that our system operators are ready for the new systems and market design. If they aren't, it could cost my company millions in fines. Texas moves to the Nodal Market in December. Things are just going to get worse for me between now and then. I haven't had much time to participate on the forum lately. I divide my time between Houston and Austin now. I'm involved in several committees that are writing the new rules and procedures. Sorry, guys. Thanks, Rick.

[ulen mn]

I kinda understand this a little better now but it will come as I gain more expierance in hand loading and do more reading and question asking I hope maybe I am just trying to much too fast and need to get the basics down a little more firm in my head before I start clouding up my small brain with more complex issues but the only way to learn for me anyway is the old style of trial and error and ask questions. Thanks guys for the answers it has helped me.

Ulen MN