SmallCaliberCentral

Finally shot my Ruger 204 Preditor this Wednesday. 12 Twist with 24" Barrel SS, Bushnell Banner 6-18X, 50 MM, Dawn to Dust Feature? Bought this online over a year ago! I searched, NOT a popular 204 Rifle on this forum?

I shot only a box of 20 hand loads. I cleaned it between each shot. Bore Snake, Solvent on Brass Brush, then a Couple patches? Barrel never got HOT but warm? Never all the way clean, some black still on the patch.

Anyway, at 100 yards it was not very consistent. Scope way high, so I moved down a few times.
So I lost some history there.

I am worried about it. Beautiful, hope it works better than that day. It was windy and I was shaky.
I will take more sand bags, but I could see I was shaky and the target flex a little in the wind.

2 In. pattern, like a shotgun. AND, the primer hit is off center? I have lots of guns, never expected that.

20 rounds....Win cases, WSR Primer, 26 G TAC, DogTown 34 G Flat Base HP, 2.260 COL.
I really had problems seating these small bullets, I drop 1 out of 3 down into the Rockcrusher Press!
These are inexpensive, may have to go to BT for ease of bullet loading? It takes twice as long, I just can't hold the little devils.

It was a bright sunny WINDY day. I liked shooting the thing and the scope was bright and clear.
Trigger is 2 stage and just fine.

What is with the firing pin not centered on this brand new rifle RUGER? I couldn't be the WW Brass could it?

I just need to have someone send me their "Dime Sized" target groups so I can sleep!
I just can't believe some of the targets you guys show.

I will never come close!

Thinking next round with Hornaday 32 or 40's, I have a box of each. I got BR4 Primers now too.
I have 3 big cans of TAC (24#), so I am stuck there for 10 years or so! I sure seemed dirty black at each
cleaning?

And yes, maybe this Ruger was not the good choice? It IS Pretty!

Dreaming of 1" patterns for now!

Mike in Beautiful San Bernardino Ca. Mountains (Crestline, Ca.)!

I don't have a target pic to send you, and none that come near the groups some guys here get, but I'll encourage you to stick with it. My only rifle (which is also my first) is a Ruger Hawkeye ultralight. Not a bench gun, and had a heavy trigger pull to start. I've done a little work to it, and tested a HEAP of handloads. Some groups go well over an inch, but most are under. I've had .3" from 4 shots a few times, but haven't found a load that does it consistently.

2 tips that really helped me:
-make sure your rest is rock solid
-don't test loads in the wind

Good luck

Yeah I wouldn't get too disappointed until you know it's not the wind and/or you. I agree with Dan get a good rest and wait for the right weather to test in.

why are you cleaning so much? Work some loads up. I like to fire 3 groups of 3 at intervals until I get to max powder load. Intervals can be .5 grain or .3 grains, your call. I usually dont clean until after my range session. A solid rest is key.

do not test groups in the wind. i like the morning or late evening for no wind conditions. there are times i like to practice reading the wind. but when i go to the range i know what it is i want to do.

who loaded the box ? you have to find your guns sweet spot. find the node. while this may require testing once you find it you are good to go.

custom reloading tools sells the vld chamfer. use this tool to help seat your bullets.

rockcrusher ha ha good one.

i clean the bore after every 20 shots. and i thought i was cleaning too much.

12 twists do not generally like 40s. 34 dogtowns are a good bullet. i like the vmax. 39sbk are a little more accurate.

You might give Ramshot's X-terminator a go. My rifle loves 27 grains of it with the 34 Dogtown.. Start lower than that and work up, in your rifle. My 204 shots 3/4 and less all day with that load in my rifle. Bill K

Well, don't be dicouraged.
Cleaning after every round means every round is a fouling shot. Even the Lord cannot predict where they'll go.

Tac is a tad slow on the burn rate for what your asking in accuracy.
Slightly slow ball powders really like to be pushed hard before accuracy appears. Not the best recipe for a beginner to be pushing hard.
You need to gain a whole lot of expierience before venturing into high pressure stuff.
It is good for breaking in a barrel which you are doing. Chances are high you would not need to clean every shot with a sooty powder like Tac.
Soot creates a barrier between bore and bullet. Very helpful in keeping copper fouling under control. The main purpose of barrel breakin.
Helpful up to the point of accuracy loss from carbon fouling. Thats when you clean.

I'd assume these 20 pcs of Winny brass were virgin, not yet fired in your gun?

I don't have a lot of expierience with Win brass but the little I do have tells me its usually quite small in specs compared to other brass in virgin state.
Therefor if the webs/body are considerably undersized they'll lay on the bottom of the chamber and take the firing pin hit high.
Should get better after one firing.
Most factory guns hit off center no matter what. Unless its a crazy amount I've never seen it cause inaccuracy.

Light winds and steady rest. Good Luck

I think he was cleaning after each shot as part of his break-in process, being a new gun and all. As for the groups, I agree w/ the comments above. Wind, virgin brass, all foulers, no load development, not relaxed, possible rest issues, etcetera. Impossible to say what the guns potential is at this point. Sure don't see any reason to be worried about the purchase yet. Hang in there, man!

Thanks for all the help! Gee NO FLAMES, just help!
Here are some thoughts and status...............

Yes, I was led to believe that I should clean the barrel every shot for a box. Since then I have read a lot more that says it is hogwash! That I am just wearing out the barrel and wasting time. And that is from a barrel manufacturer?

So I will probably just clean after on box from now on? I got Possum Hollows cleaning system and
a carbon fiber cleaning rod for small calibers. Works really nice. Again, on sale last year from Midway!
Love them!

I will be neck sizing this once fired brass for the next round. I have BR4 CCI primers to try.
They are now fire formed in this rifle?

I have 3 - 8lb Tac cans, so I will be continuing with Ramshot TAC. It has been a very good power for most in 223. And I also use it in my M1A and 7mm-08. TAC was put at the H4895 burning rate, I think because 4895 is supported as one of the most versatile powers ever?

I bought it a few years ago when the bama scare dried up all the power and primers. Yes I panic-ed!

I do have Varget too?

I have 1000 of the 34 G bullets on sale from Shooters Pro Shop (thanks for someone on here!)
$75! Good price. And a lot of bullets!

I am thinking about how to bullet seat. I drop too many of these small guys! They are flat based too,
hard to handle. I might make a fixture or try the Lee Hand Press for bullet seating?

I got some more sand bags and just bought a Cadwell Rest (small one) on sale today at Midway.

So, I am getting excited about the next trip to our mountain range! Hope the wind is gone!

Thanks Everyone.
Mike

Good luck Mike. That rest should go a long way to eliminating user error.
For seating flat based bullets I've found that a VLD mouth chamfer tool works a treat. Once you've put the chamfer on, the bullets just sit there nice and straight, waiting to be seated.

+1 on the VLD tool. For powder, you may have luck w/ the Varget if TAC does not work for you. I'm using RL10X but, started with Varget and it was pretty darn accurate. Once you have eliminated the other variables and are getting good groups, play with your seating depth. I like to save that for last, so as not to confuse things!

Motodog

For some reason I got the impression you were just beginning to reload. My apologies if I seemed to be talking down to you.

Dan's right the VLD chamfer tool is a must have at my bench. I use it on everything from milsurp battle rifles to full blown BenchRest guns.
The 34gn dogtowns are The hardest bullet to seat I ever used. The heel of the bullet is exactly square which causes that. Fairly uncommon in my expierience for flat based bullets to be totally flat based.
I've used a Lee hand press alot and for the life of me I can't see how that would make it easier

I place a bullet between my forefinger and thumb (left hand). Place it over the case mouth. Without releasing the bullet my right hand moves the charging handle which raises the ram.
I allow the left hand to follow the case right up into the die until the die pushes my fingers back down the case. By then the bullets in the die and its the dies job to capture and straighten.
Never lose a one that way.

All that being said I've never heard of anyone getting consistently great accuracy out of the 34 DT's. Someones got some targets showing a consistent .5 moa at 200yds and I'll be very impressed.
I'll bet they do what they were intended to do well.

Anyone ever try em out of a decent custom barrel with good results? I never have. Might be a good time for some braggin

Funny, I bought a heapload of Ramshot powder just about the same time as you. X-Terminator rocks in the 6PPC and 6BR lite.

Thanks Guys,
I got the Nosler Bullets ( DogTown?) coming today and Midway order on its way with some electronic headphones and a front rest.

This 204 has not been easy on my monthly retirement SS check! I think Midway ought to send me a check once in a while! I am helping to stimulate the economy, my way!

I was looking at the first fired Win brass from that first shoot. There are black rings around the neck from firing.
Kind of looks dirty. Maybe leaking, bullet not tight or seated enough? They were set to 2.260 COL. Barely into case? On a second count, could be the solvent from all the cleaning between each shot?

I looked at burning curves, I can see that people who suggest a slightly faster power, x-Terminator is right in there. I is just above TAC. Varget is quite a bit slower than TAC.

As for DogTowns and TAC I found this on here on this site. I don't know how to link another discussion, so I copied the whole enchilada.

Hope this works...TAC and Dogtowns Results from one of the members

http://www.204ruger.com/forum/viewtopic ... 392#p49856

Moto,
I'm not nearly as experienced with the 204 as most of these guys, but I'm shooting a cz 527 thin barreled 204, and got decent luck using varget and the 34 gr dogtowns. I used win brass, fed sr primer and 28.5 gr varget seated at 2.20. Not my best groups but was getting .65-.67 3 shots @ 100 yds out of three different tests. They are a pain to seat and as far as your barrel being dirty I fought the same problem when my gun was new. Seemed like it took forever to clean and I tried different powders all over the spectrum thinking i was using to slow of a powder. My rifle however, after about 100 rounds changed completely. I was getting frustrated but somewhere around the 100 shot mark seemed like the groups started to shrink, and the barrel showed alot less fouling then it was before. Hope this helps a little.

MotoDog wrote:Thanks Guys,
I got the Nosler Bullets ( DogTown?) coming today and Midway order on its way with some electronic headphones and a front rest.

This 204 has not been easy on my monthly retirement SS check! I think Midway ought to send me a check once in a while! I am helping to stimulate the economy, my way!

I was looking at the first fired Win brass from that first shoot. There are black rings around the neck from firing.
Kind of looks dirty. Maybe leaking, bullet not tight or seated enough? They were set to 2.260 COL. Barely into case? On a second count, could be the solvent from all the cleaning between each shot?

I looked at burning curves, I can see that people who suggest a slightly faster power, x-Terminator is right in there. I is just above TAC. Varget is quite a bit slower than TAC.

As for DogTowns and TAC I found this on here on this site. I don't know how to link another discussion, so I copied the whole enchilada.

Hope this works...TAC and Dogtowns Results from one of the members

http://www.204ruger.com/forum/viewtopic ... 392#p49856

A black ring around the neck isn't a bad thing. Sometimes the most accurate loads will produce such a ring in the center of the neck. I have observed that lower pressure loads can start off smudging the entire neck and shoulder junction, then as loads and pressure increases the ring moves forward, eventually disappearing as pressures approach maximum. Some of my lowest Standard Deviation loads are marked by the mid-neck ring. This is just an observation and not a rule to follow, so many variables control the outcome it's more a curiosity than anything practical.

There are several causes of an off center primer strike in a bolt action rifle, usually factory production rifles. These are: a chamber that is cut eccentric or not straight with the bore (it wobbles relative to the bore), barrel shank/ threads cut eccentric or not axial, action threads off, and the bolt not in line with the center of the bore among others. Then add the brass, which will have some error and tolerance that allow it to chamber, and all these things may work together to cause an off-center strike. I have several rifles that strike off center, but they perform very well, so this doesn't always mean much. However, almost all of my precision barreled custom rifle, or rifles with a custom barrel, strikes centered within the limits of the brass. Exception is one barrel that strikes a bit off, yet shoots under .5" and hits rats like a laser guided missile.

Also, if you installed the scope yourself, a screw can bottom out on the barrel threads appear tight but leave the front of the base loose, and place tension on the barrel threads, messing up accuracy (I learned this the hard way). Scope installation is more complicated than it appears. Same with the stock screws, they need to be tightened but not overdone.

If possible try seating out to 2.260". Most rifle barrels won't group to their potential until they have been fired a bit. Some dispute the need to break-in a barrel, but my experience with every new barrel I have installed is that somewhere between 30-50 shots groups shrink noticeably. I would also recommend buying a good cleaning rod, one without brass fittings (Bore Tech makes a Proof Positive Rod), nylon brushes, and Proof Positive jags. Use a bore guide. The Bore Snakes are convenient, but they load with stuff and pull it back through the bore. Cheap rifle rests are available, I've used the same one for 40 years ( I also buy bank bags and fill them with sand for field use). Your rifle is nowhere near broken-in, and you are just starting, so accuracy comes later. Give yourself and the rifle a chance, one of the most accurate rifles I had was a Ruger.