How is Hornady so fast?

[ThaDoubleJ]

I'm looking at the reloading info on this site, and then at the boxes of Hornady factory stuff I have, and it's WAY fast compared to the data from the powder people. 3900 for 40gr and 4225 for the 32s. Most of the stuff I see on here from the powder folk is 3900 for the 32s and around 3650 for the 40s. Are these safe numbers, are the experienced reloaders hitting near 4K with 40gr ammo, or is Hornady using magic?

[204cat]

custom powder.

[Glen]

Just because they say the 32's are running 4225fps doesn't necessarily mean the whole 5 shot string averaged 4225fps. My theory is that once they see a number they like it's printed on the label. And they use blended powders. Just my thoughts on it.

[ThaDoubleJ]

I'm familiar with marketing and PR bull, everyone does it, I wonder if anyone has measured this Hornday stuff to try to confirm their claims. If I actually owned a .204 rifle and chrony, I'd give it a shot, but I only have boolits and glass

[wirelessguy2005]

a couple months back i tested out some Hornady factory 32 grain VMax ammo. I used a Howa rifle with 24 barrel as my test platform. With the Chrono placed approximately 10 feet in front of the muzzle i was getting just a little bit over 4,000 fps. I can honestly say that the FPS in this particular rifle was nowhere near what Hornady claims. I was able to get the same 4,000 fps speed from my handloads using Ramshot Xterminator powder.

[Bill K]

Remember we are shooting standard and custom firearms. They use a pressure barrel in a lab, they also use a custom/designer powder (which we supposedly can buy now, Superformance). But follow their loading manual and only use it in cartridges they show. Without getting dangerous pressures in your rifle, you will probably never match the companies velocitys. Bill K

[Rick in Oregon]

DoubleJ: Hornadys 204 Ruger factory velocities were obtained with a design combination of radically increased freebore, the still non-canister powder Primex SMP746, and 26" pressure barrels.

Even with the slightly lower velocities we mortal humans are able to obtain with this caliber (4,060 & 3,980 fps for me), it is still faster than my Swift and more fun to shoot. Who cares if we can't reach published factory velocity hype? It kills varmints very well, very far away....works for me. Besides, I don't have any rifles that need the bolt lugs set back just for that "extra 100 fps".

[Silverfox]

My Savage 12VLP in .204 Ruger was purchased on June 5, 2004, and I purchased 15 boxes of 32 gr. V-Max Hornady factory ammo. It took me awhile before I got the scope I ordered and I finally got the rifle ready to shoot on June 22, 2004. Here's a list of the chronograph readings of the first 6 shots out of the freshly cleaned 26" factory barrel:

4,048 (I cleaned the barrel)
4,077 (I cleaned the barrel)
3,992
4,089
3,994
4,043 (I cleaned the barrel again)

Those six shots averaged 4,041 fps at 12 feet 9 inches from the muzzle.

I shot five more shots over the chronograph and those averaged 4,079 fps at 12 feet 9 inches from the muzzle. After those tests, out of curiosity, I pulled a bullet on one of the factory casings to look at the powder and weigh the powder charge. The powder charge weighed 30.2 gr.

I did some prairie dog hunting, did some reloading and by August 20, 2004, I had 200 rounds down the barrel. I set up my chronograph again and shot 10 more 32 gr. V-Max factory loads over the chronograph. I had the chronograph at 12 feet from the muzzle and the average velocity of those 10 shots was 4,160 fps which would put the muzzle velocity at right around 4,180 fps.

A week or so after that, I took the rifle out to the range with the chronograph and shot 6 more 32 gr. V-Max factory loads for velocity measurement. I had 247 shots down the barrel before this test. The average velocity of those six shots was 4,192 fps. The actual muzzle velocity would be right arount 4,214.3 fps using the online JBM Ballistics calculator. The highest velocity reading 4,229 fps and the lowest at 4,155 fps.

My 32 gr. V-Max handloads were averaging about 4,255 fps with a pretty stiff charge of H4895. I finished up the 2004 hunting season with about 10 or 15 of the 32 gr. V-Max reloads unfired. The next spring I shot some of them over my chronograph and was amazed to see that the six shots I did take, averaged a very speedy 4,300.8 fps!!!!! I pulled all those bullets, salvaged the powder, resized them, and reloaded them with 28.5 gr. of H4895. Muzzle velocity with this load is 4,172 fps and accuracy was just fine.

So, the 32 gr. V-Max factory loads did come very close to the advertised 4,225 fps out of my 26" barreled Savage 12VLP. My handloads, albeit with hot loads, exceeded the 4,225 fps by 30 fps during the fall of 2004 and exceeded the 4,225 fps by 75 fps the last time I shot them in 2005 before I pulled bullets and tamed down the powder charge.

Hitting the 4,225 fps mark isn't something to really aim for. Getting your rifle to shoot accurately should be the main foucs. A bullet traveling 4,225 fps that doesn't hit my intended target isn't much good to me. Load for accuracy and if you can get that objective met you should be happy even if you don't hit the magic 4,225 fps.

[tpcollins]

I got around 3850 fps with the Hornady but I have a Tikka 22 1/4" barrel so I expected some drop off. I have no reason to doubt they'll reach 4200+ with a 26" barrel . . .

[ThaDoubleJ]

Collins, is that with 40 or 32 grain ammo? The 12FCV I'm ordering is a 26"er, so I'm hoping to get some fast, straight boolits out of it.

[stef]

I would expect that Hornady & Ruger wants to get max velocities out of the .204 Ruger to market & promote the cartridge.

If I wanted to get max velocities from .204 factory ammo I would select the optimum powder for velocity (special brew) and make rifles/reamers with some "free bore" (running start).

In addition I would test ammo using a 26 inch barrel.

In the real world accuracy counts more than velocity. How much velocity loss per inch of barrel length reduction? If it is 25 fps per inch, a 100 fps loss would occur between a 22 inch and 26 inch barrel. The Sierra ballistics program tells me that at 500 yards the velocity of both fast and slow loads (100 fps diff @ 0 yds) is the same - more velocity more air resistance. The trajectory with 200 yd zero at 500 yds is somewhat more than 1 inch different, wind deflection is about 1.5 inches different.

If I wanted to really see what velocity losses were per inch of barrel shortening I would get a hacksaw, tape measure, and barrel crown cutter (Brownells) and start cutting but I think I guess of 25 fps with the .204 Ruger is about right because the pressures are about 56-57 thousand psi and only 25-27 grs of powder are used.

I don't give max velocity much importance. To me a lighter more easily handled rifle that is accurate is more likely to be used. If I get 3700 fps with a 40 HVmax with my 22 inch short throated barrel I will be satisfied.

[moorepower]

Bullberry did a test by cutting off 1" at a time and I believe 23" was the max fps on their barrel.

[danielbrothers]

very good information SilverFox... especially since i shoot the same ammo... thanks....Dan

[Bill K]

Just to add to the comments of how they do it. As mentioned, special powder, pressure barrel at 26 inch average, in a lab/test tube and with control temp, etc. We most likely, could never, ever reach those speeds safely(Safely) in our rifles, so we should never try it. Accuracy is the number one motive, along with the best velocity we can safely reach. Remember a slow hit is better than a fast miss. Be safe and have fun, is our game of choice. Oh along with seeing those varmints mist. Bill K