SmallCaliberCentral

I'm seeking some advice on which items to order for cleaning my .204. From the searches I've done, the Dewey rod is the most popular. Per R.I.O's advice, I tried calling sinclair international, but all the techs had left for the day. Unfortunately, I'm rarely in a position where I'll be able to call when they are there. As such, I wanted to see if you guys can help me out.

I have a Savage model 12 with a 26" barrel. I'm confused on which diameter and length of rod to order, the .17 cal or the .20 cal? Rick, you mentioned the 1 1/8" square patches, right? Which size/style of jag works best with those? I'm going to order the Sinclair adjustable bore guide too. That one seems pretty straight forward. But, what length of rod do I need for a 26" barrel plus a bore guide? I'm going to grab a bronze brush. Again, which caliber should I buy? I see that you can order them in bulk, is that necessary? Do they wear out quickly? Finally, which solvents have you guys found the best to use? I have read good things about Bore Tech Cu+2 and +4 solvents. I was looking ahead on the PacNor website to see what products they recommend as I will eventually be replacing my barrel with one from them. They recommend KG 2,3, &4 solvents.

Sorry to sound so naive on the subject of something to universally basic, but like all things, cleaning can be done correctly or half-azzed and I just want to do it right. Thanks in advance for any help you can offer.

I have the dewey rod in 20 caliber. Its a close fit in the 20 caliber bore. For my Remington 700 26" barrel and the tipton bore guide, the 38" rod with a brush and the end allows for the brush just to make it through. But The Bearing system is really nice as it turns freely down the bore. For ME the 1 1/8 were impossible to get down the barrel (soaked or not or even poking the jag through the corner) I got mine from Easten Shooting Supply and had to cut them all. I now use 7/8 patches and they work good for me. I recently started using Shooters Choice Bore Cleaner and I am amazed how much quicker I got clean patched through the stuff is SO STRONG! I dont know why but i smelt the stuff and I thought i lost all my brain cells and was going to die I (thought) a gun I had was totaly clean since I was getting white patches with my previous cleaner, but I put some shooters choice down the bore and I got black patches! The thing I dont understand Is your asking of what caliber Brush? Why Not 20 cal. I use 20 cal brushes, jags, and swabs made by Dewey. I just wish they made the Dewey Parker Hale Style Jag It works SO NICE for my other calibers but they dont have it in 20 cal. But Everything Dewey I have bought so far works and lasted great for me! For The Shooters Choice Bore Cleaner It recomends (which I do) is swab the bore with gun oil before you put it away becase the bore cleaner would prolly eat the metal if it sat there for a long time And actually something I just got in today is the dewey kit for cleaning of the bolt lug recess area. http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?p ... ber=713614

STH: Get the .20 cal rod, and forget the Dewey jags. Get the Dewey Rod Adapter so you can use the much better male threaded spear Point Jags, such as offered by Pro-Shot. Then you can use the 1-1/8" square patches, and by using a bore-specific spear point jag, the patch will center perfectly in the bore every time. I use this size patch in all my rifles from .20 to 6mm caliber, just by using the properly sized jag on the appropriate diameter rod.

Get your bronze brushes in bulk. I wear one out in a day of heavy rat shooting if I'm cleaning any of my 204's properly. I'll clean after no more than 35 rounds to keep the rifle up to peak accuracy and not overheat the barrel. Brushes are cheap, custom barrels are not. Another product that really works on heavily fouled barrels, and not to be used for routine cleaning is Holland's Witches Brew. That stuff will clean the worst fouled barrel to bare steel without harming the barrel in any way.....great stuff.

My Ruger M77 Swift with 26" barrel requires the 38" Dewey rod to clear the Sinclair Bore Guide. Their new guides have a built-in solvent port; nice.

As for solvents, for copper I use Barnes CR-10. Lately I've switched my usual carbon/copper solvent from my mix of Shooters Choice & Kroil 60/40% (formula given to me by a successful BR shooter) to Butch's Bore Shine. I'm still sorting it out, but Butch's seems to be doing a great job on my heavily shot varmint barrels in both carbon and copper removal.

If possible, do try the guys at Sinclair if you can make times work, as they're about the most knowledgeable guys you'll find anywhere, and will cheerfully help no matter your experience level. HTH

Rick, you wear out a bronze brush in one day?? How are you recognizing them as worn out? I don't use my brushes very much and I'm not sure I've worn any of them out... ever.

I've recently switched to Butch's Bore Shine and I like it a lot. I noticed that the inside of my .22-250 barrel looked like it was copper plated. Both Hoppes #9 and M-Pro 7 "Copper Remover" didn't hardly touch the copper build up at all. Asked some of my fellow high power competitors and they unanimously recommended Butch's. It works very well at removing copper fouling. Love it.

I will say this about your cleaning rod choice. I also shoot a .17 cal rifle and bought a Pro-Shot stainless .17-.20 cal cleaning rod and could not be happier. Keep that in mind if you have or plan on having a .17 of any kind. I also use the Pro-Shot jags for all my calibers and they work just fine.

Also, don't forget one of these patch holders like the ones below for swabbing the barrel with the copper solvent. I personally prefer the plastic ones.

I've recently switched from Dewey Rods to Pro Shot rods in my 17 and 20 calibers. I think they are better rods. RIO is right on with patch vs jag sized. I'm sure that like most of you I have gone the whole route with bore cleaners. Lately my regiment has been to use a 60/40 mixture of Kroil and Montana Extreme on a couple of patches, then a nylon brush followed by a couple of patches with my mixture on, then a couple of dry patches. Then I use Wipe Out foam and leave it set for 30 min. , another couple of dry patches, then a patch with lockease on it. Let set for 15 min. push out any excess graphite with a patch and I'm done. All this generally takes me about on hour or less and so far I rarely have any blue patches from copper fouling.
A bore guide is a must of course and I prefer Sinclairs.

I use Shooters Choice and Butch's for powder fouling, and I started using KG-12 Copper Remover. Sinclair Bore Guide, and Pro Shot Brass Brushes and Nylon Brushes

I use a Dewey Rod and Pro shot jags with 1 1/4 Round patches from Brownell

Rick in Oregon wrote:Get the Dewey Rod Adapter so you can use the much better male threaded spear Point Jags, such as offered by Pro-Shot.

As for solvents, for copper I use Barnes CR-10. Lately I've switched my usual carbon/copper solvent from my mix of Shooters Choice & Kroil 60/40% (formula given to me by a successful BR shooter) to Butch's Bore Shine. I'm still sorting it out, but Butch's seems to be doing a great job on my heavily shot varmint barrels in both carbon and copper removal.

Thanks a bunch Rick and everyone else for your help. I was investigating the Dewey rods and noticed that the .17 & .20 caliber rods have female 5/40 threads at the end whereas the larger caliber rods have male ends. It appears that the Pro-Shot .20 cal jag has male 5/40 threads, so I'm assuming that an adapter wouldn't be necessary for that. My question is the bulk bronze brushes. I can't find what the thread is on them. Anybody happen to know?

My other question is when you say Shooters Choice and Kroil 60/40%, are you mixing the two in that ratio and then just using a patch to apply it?

I know you are getting a million opinions, but check out the Tipton carbon fiber rods. I like them much better than Deweys coated rods. My Dewey rods coating has started to peel and it can be scratched off if you inadvertantly hit a sharp edge while handling the rod. The carbon fiber rods are safe if they happen to come in contact with your barrel. (supposedly) The handle is on roller bearings and man is it SMOOOOTH. As far as brushes go I have both bronze and nylon brushes. I'm moving more of my brushes to nylon because harsh solvents dont eat them up although I believe both have their place. I also use Butches Bore Shine and for severe cleaning I use JB Bore shine and/ JB Paste after Butch's. I'm now a huge fan (so far anyway) of JB shine every now and again. It was just the ticket for a few of my barrels.

+1 on RIO's comments on jags.....

I was able to call Sinclair International a while back to order some cleaning items. Today I set out to clean my .204 and to check out the new stuff. The 38" Dewey rod is awesome and just the right length. Per RIO advice, I ordered the Pro-Shot jag. The Pro-Shot jag and 1 1/8" square Sinclair patches are a perfect combo! The .17 &.20 caliber rods have female 5/40 threads so the Pro-Shot jag and Sinclair bronze brushes both screw in without any adapter needed. I love the Sinclair adjustable action rod guide. The Dewey jag that comes with the rod is too big to be able to use the 1 1/8" patches. One might be able to use the 3/4" patches And the Dewey jag.

The tech at Sinclair said that they are currently using and liking Bore Eliminator bore cleaner. My experience showed that it is very effective at removing copper. I don't think it did much for carbon build up. It does quickly eat bronze brushes, but I'm ok with that because it tells me that it's effective on copper build up in my bore if it can eat bronze so quickly. I found an interesting article about the copper and carbon layers that build up in the bore. So, I knew I had removed all the copper I could using the Eliminator. I also knew I that the Eliminator was removing some carbon, but not a whole lot. I wondered if I could really get the carbon out, would there be another layer of copper for the Eliminator to work on? During my online search for the best carbon removers for gun bores, I routinely read about shooters who used non-chlorinated brake cleaner and how effective it was. So, I gave it a whirl. After all, $1.98 at Walmart is a good price. All I can say is Holy Cow!! I tried the brake cleaner right after the Eliminator was producing only very light grey/blue patches. The brake cleaner, on just a patch, came out much darker on the first patch. It was interesting to note that after just using straight brake cleaner, til the patches came out clean, the next patch with Eliminator produced heavy copper staining again. I think that backs up the claim that our bores develop layers of carbon and copper. I ended up alternating the two processes, copper-then carbon. I did that routine until it looked, by both patches, that the bore is clean. I follow up in the end with some light Kroil.

Has anybody else used brake cleaner as bore cleaner? I'm not talking about just a general cleaner, but specifically for the bore. Man alive I had a lot of fowling in my barrel. I take it my previous cleaning routine didn't work as well as I thought it had.

Thanks to all who chimed in, you were very helpful!

For heavy Copper removal I use Sweets 7.62 and it works very well. For Carbon removal I use SLIP 2000. Both are very good products but all residue must be removed from the bore after cleaning is complete. For routine cleaning I use Shooters Choice. Once my supplies of Shooters Choice & Sweets gets used I'll try some of these others. A good friend of mine has suggested a FOAM in a blue can (I believe its made by Gunslik). It works ok but it was a little messy if it gets in your action.

As far as brushes I've taken a liking to nylon brushes. I'm figuring the chemicals is doing most of the work anyway and besides you won't get false readings due to the brushes. One other item that heps remove both Copper & Carbon is Lead Away. But be careful on blued firearms, it will remove the bluing.

HTH