SmallCaliberCentral

I have on hand almost everything I need to sweeten up a new still unfired Remington 700 VLS in 204 Ruger. It will be floated and pillar bedded to both the original laminated and a B&C A3 style stock, choice of Nikon or Leupold covering 4 to 20x in QRW rings on Leupold base, and a Jewell presently on the “A” spring as delivered at one pound. When done and if it will not deliver ½ MOA or less I want all other possibles previously covered so the only things left will be to have the action made perfect when being fitted with a real barrel in a 10 or faster twist.

The original plan was to break in the Remington barrel (shoot one - clean - until…) using Hornady factory 40gr. loads, only after doing all the sweetening. But now I can’t stand it any -- I gotta -- I mean, I really feel like I should have a before picture to compare with the after so back together OEM with glass and on to break-in.

For barrel break-in, would a milder load of 22.5 gr H322, 6 ½, new Hornady brass, with 40gr V-Max, ~.010 off the lands at ~3340 fps (similar to Nosler #6 listed as starting load for 40gr BT) be better (less abrupt) for the process than the HOT Hornady factory 40gr V-Max load listed on the box as 3900 fps? Or is HOT desirable for blasting away the goobers left from Remington’s fine machining work? I’ll also be forming new brass during the barrel break-in so special reloading for it will not be a total waste.

I have seven more powders on hand to choose from, 6 ½ & BR-4 primers, 32 & 40gr VM, 40gr BT, 32gr BK, and 26gr VG, 100 new cases to form, and enough toys to check and set critical dimensions. A single shot diet will be the usual norm, most of the time anyways.

I’m open to any OEM barrel break-in ritual or ceremony you might have to offer so long as it doesn’t involve getting naked any time soon.

As far as I can gather, improving the micro-finish of the bore makes a rifle shoot better.

Lilja who I buy my barrels from hand laps the barrels at the factory using cast honing tools charged with abrasive and lubricant which accomplishes this prior to shipment.

Firing jacket bullets through the barrel can basically accomplish the same thing, but for it to work the barrel cannot have a build up of residue in the bore during the process. What you do is clean the bore surface during the process to expose the surfaces to the traveliing bullet. These super intense processes may not be required but you shouldn't go to long between cleanings with a new bore. It follows that no amount of firing or cleaning will work if surface finish attained during gun drilling and rifling is outside reasonable limits.

Lilja Technician Joe Morrison hand lapping barrels:



Prior to inspection by Borescope shown below:

RoadKill wrote:I have on hand almost everything I need to sweeten up a new still unfired Remington 700 VLS in 204 Ruger. It will be floated and pillar bedded to both the original laminated and a B&C A3 style stock, choice of Nikon or Leupold covering 4 to 20x in QRW rings on Leupold base, and a Jewell presently on the “A” spring as delivered at one pound. When done and if it will not deliver ½ MOA or less I want all other possibles previously covered so the only things left will be to have the action made perfect when being fitted with a real barrel in a 10 or faster twist.

The original plan was to break in the Remington barrel (shoot one - clean - until…) using Hornady factory 40gr. loads, only after doing all the sweetening. But now I can’t stand it any -- I gotta -- I mean, I really feel like I should have a before picture to compare with the after so back together OEM with glass and on to break-in.

For barrel break-in, would a milder load of 22.5 gr H322, 6 ½, new Hornady brass, with 40gr V-Max, ~.010 off the lands at ~3340 fps (similar to Nosler #6 listed as starting load for 40gr BT) be better (less abrupt) for the process than the HOT Hornady factory 40gr V-Max load listed on the box as 3900 fps? Or is HOT desirable for blasting away the goobers left from Remington’s fine machining work? I’ll also be forming new brass during the barrel break-in so special reloading for it will not be a total waste.

I have seven more powders on hand to choose from, 6 ½ & BR-4 primers, 32 & 40gr VM, 40gr BT, 32gr BK, and 26gr VG, 100 new cases to form, and enough toys to check and set critical dimensions. A single shot diet will be the usual norm, most of the time anyways.

I’m open to any OEM barrel break-in ritual or ceremony you might have to offer so long as it doesn’t involve getting naked any time soon.

For me I always did the shoot and clean method even with custom barrels (Kreiger & Obermeyer single-point-cut). Because of unknowns I would pick a low-mid range power load. The 1st 50 rounds or so (depending on fouling) would take up a fair amount of the shooting day but it paid off in the end and besides I had 50 fire-form cases a broke in barrel and a sighted in rifle. Don’t be surprised if it takes a couple hundred of rounds or so before barrel is completely broke in. Also, take a good look at the crown and make sure it’s in good shape.

For your loads, if I understand you right you’re using the factory barrel. Both of my Remington tubes routinely produce sub-1/2” groups at 200 yards. Don’t overlook case prep, it goes a long way and besides, you only have to do it once.

For the bullets, I never had good luck with Hornady VMAX bullets. All three of mine really like the 39SBK, so that’s what I stick with. For primers, I presume the 61/2 reflects a Remington 61/2 SR primer. If so, I’d do some research on them because I’ve heard they’re designed around light SR loads and have thinner primer cups leading to more chance(s) of pierced primer (not a good thing). Personally, I’ve never used them. On the other hand, the Remington 71/2 BR has thicker cups and really works well. Never tried BR-4’s although I just picked up a brick of them.

After all of this, when you finally get the rig to the range, the target hung (and all of that) make sure your fitted/situated on your bench where everything lines up. Your groups will reflect this. It varies by caliber but .008” is 1-MOA. So take the time so you don’t induce anymore movement.

HTH

The Remington 6-1/2 primer will either blow pinholes around the primer cup edge and pock mark your bolt face, or blank a hole where the firing pin hits. That primer is not tough enough for the pressure of the .204 Ruger. I had that primer pop a pinhole every shot in the 7mm TCU on a Contender, which wasn't too much trouble because I could swap firing pin bushings when they became too eroded. The Remington 7-1/2 BR primer is made for higher pressures and excellent in accuracy. The BR-4's will work, and I haven't had the Federal match primers fail, or the Winchester either.

Your break-in load isn't as important as watching the trend of groups fired. At some point, usually around 30 - 50 shots (in a custom double lapped barrel, i.e. Shilen, Pac-Nor, Brux, Kreiger, Lilja, etc) the group will shrink noticeably, and copper fouling will lessen dramatically. In a Remington factory barrel, it may or may not take longer. Remington production barrels are usually roto-forged, the exception being on certain 40-X series where they use Hart barrels, most seem to be accurate.

My suggestion is to clean the barrel squeaky clean before firing with a solvent, then pass a few patches with rubbing alcohol through the bore and dry. Then use a patch or two of bore lube, such as Darrel Holland's Witch's Brew Barrel Break-in Fluid (follow the directions). Shoot one and clean for 5 shots, then repeat using a separate target for each group. Then fire five shot groups, cleaning between each group. Use a good solvent, patches and nylon brushes. I use Bore Tech products with the Proof Positive rods, jags and nylon brushes, as they do not leach copper blue from the ferrule or jag/brush to fool you into thinking the barrel is still copper fouled. Use a solvent such as Bore Tech's Eliminator, followed by a copper solvent, then by a carbon solvent such as Bore Tech's C4 Carbon Remover. A barrel cleaned of powder residue and copper will still produce patches showing brown to gray carbon fouling. Then clean with alcohol and dry, lube and continue. At some point the groups will shrink and stabilize, break-in is complete. Go here for confirmation: http://www.pac-nor.com/care/

Just don't over heat the barrel, or even get it too warm during the process. Break-in the barrel without any modifications to the rifle, if it shoots .5" or under, you are in business. Each .1" in further reduction will cost considerable money, with no guarantee of success.

The 6 ½ primer was supposed to be the 7 ½ but misplaced inventory resulted in the sickly brother being delivered instead. The BR-4 I understand also has a heavier cup so I figure on using the 6 ½ on the light stuff or .223 but I will be watching for the first hint and trash them hopefully before they trash me. I have already noticed the 7 ½ and 205M appear most often as a part of “found my load”. The shipping charge for this stuff is just wrong.

I have noticed a number of folks having difficulty with the 40 gr. but nearly all report it will shoot the 39 and/or lighter very well. This was considered in the light load formula for break in and fire forming as it will be burning up 6 ½ primers and 40 gr. pills while I’m still at a point where I shouldn’t expect the best. However Nosler #6 did obtain “best accuracy” from their 40 gr. with 205M using this load. Case prep will be typical overkill and complete to the point that the new case needs to be fired before trimming. I’ll start OAL at spec until I’ve established where the lands are and then seat .010 off (if .010 is realistic in mine) until it’s time to experiment.

Thank you for your views. They ~ mirror what I’ve seen from several sources including an article from July ‘04 “American Hunter” and several “real barrel folk” web sites. This will take me a very long while (too many past traumas) but it will be done. I’ll start out with it as delivered but if that X-Mark is total junk the Jewell will go in early. There is no doubt that both stocks are in need of work as I can feel it start to bind before the rear screw “hits bottom”. “They” say watch for drop in patch count for “clean”, reduction in required effort, and for groups tightening up and you’re close to done. I have Bore Tech products for carbon and copper and the Proof Positive attachments with Dewey rod and Sinclair guide. I’ve seen the good that can come from addressing the little details only this time I’m going to do it right from round one instead of trying to pick it up after it’s possible that the damage has already been done. If it comes down to a quest for the “made perfect” action fitted to a “real” barrel then I’ll be worrying the snot out of you’ll again for “who and where” to have it done? Our local doctor has only been local for a couple years. He tries to give the impression that he is capable of building competition winners but so far I haven’t seen hard evidence. If I’m able to reach my goal with what I have the next wad of money needs to go towards having my recliner mounted on something like a BR Pivot… RIO? Anybody?

RoadKill wrote:The 6 ½ primer was supposed to be the 7 ½ but misplaced inventory resulted in the sickly brother being delivered instead.

If I’m able to reach my goal with what I have the next wad of money needs to go towards having my recliner mounted on something like a BR Pivot… RIO? Anybody?

RoadKill: First, don't be quick to trash those Rem 6.5 primers. That primer is the darling of the 22 Hornet, K-Hornet, 20 Hornet, 17 Ackley Hornet crowd, and was designed for the lower pressure those rounds produce, along with offerings such as the 218 Bee. It is mild enough so as not to start the bullet moving out of the case from primer blast alone prior to the powder being fully ignited (critical in small case accuracy). I keep a few thousand on hand for my various Hornets, and over 35 years of shooting Hornets of one variety or another has proven the worth of the Rem 6-1/2 primer. It was never designed or intended for the likes of the 204 Ruger.

As for your recliner project.......pictures man, pictures! After ten years of selling the BRP to the military, agencies I'd never heard of in addition to the FBI, LE agencies, forensic labs and thousands of PD and squirrel shooters, the best photos were always from inventive, resourceful guys from the U.S. showing their BRP set up from mild to very, very wild. Ah, and the stories that came with them. One guy had a 40' enclosed trailer with five BRP's on the upper deck, with...get this, a hydraulic elevator to move equipment from the main deck up to the 'shooting deck' above (he must have been in the Navy aboard an aircraft carrier me thinks), and all the creature comforts you could cook up inside the trailer...cleaning stations, reloading area, rifle storage, living/party area......just about the best toy any of us could ever imagine........ Sorry for the sidetrack.

Install the Jewell and forget the factory trigger. If you've already got the Jewell, use it, as you'll never, ever go back, I promise. Like Wranger and Jim said, break in it properly and shoot it for a while. A custom barrel is about guaranteed to shoot much better than any factory barrel, so you've always got that to look forward to with that wad of cash if the Rem barrel does not impress.....sometimes they do, you just never know.

But don't forget the camera when you start the "recliner project".

Trigger = JEWEL, JEWEL and another JEWEL. I started buying Jewel triggers when the factory trigger on my Remington 40-X went south. Never worried again about a trigger. Jewel's proved even better than the old Canjar's, even the 2 ounce. They are easily installed and come with an additional weight of pull spring. All that is needed to clean them is a squirt bottle of Rononol lighter fluid or similar. Dose them out and let dry, no oil or other stuff needed. Greg Tannel set my one Remington up with a full "blueprint" and timing job - that Jewel lets off with a wish and desire to fire, uncanny. The ones I installed on the other rifles are just as good, while I set them the same, about 1.5 pounds, they don't seem as light.

RIO is right on about the Remington 6-1/2 primer being accurate, that's why I used it in the Contender with Reloader 7. Groups were just phenomenal with the 6-1/2 so I accepted the damage, it wasn't unsafe, just messy. I had similar results in rifles, where bolt face damage is unacceptable. Life is always a compromise, too bad. If they don't pop a hole in the cup, or blank on you, you are in business. Blanking is bad business because high pressure gas can erode the firing pin and drive debris into the bolt interior, and your eye is behind the cocking piece.

As for rebuilding or rebarreling with bells and whistles: http://www.gretanrifles.com/ be prepared to wait 8 months to a year, http://www.hollandguns.com/ produces work that looks like jewelry and shoots as pretty, or http://www.scorehi.com . Look at the gunsmith list at http://www.6mmbr.com/gunsmiths.html any of these that does Remington actions will do. If you just want a rebarrel, Pac-Nor, Shilen, Kreiger, Hart and many of the barrel makers will true up an action and install a made to order barrel for you. Sounds like fun no matter what.

My introduction to re-loading was prompted by the 22 Hornet in 10” Contender back in the mid to latter ‘70s. Somehow I survived ironing the R-P to illegible after too few firings but no matter how stupid I got I couldn’t make the jug splatter effect with the little Hornet equal to that of my buds Varmint Model 70 in 243, but I got close. I do remember that even when abused by possibly dangerous amounts of 2400(?) the Hornet was still silly accurate. I don’t remember what primers I used or any problems, just LOUD with an incredible flash and the value of proper projectile selection for best splatter. Rather than trash the 6 ½ primers now I MUST obtain a new Hornet this time with more barrel, and K Hornet, and might as well go .20 while I have you’ll to blame. I’ll assume that the pressure levels involved between the .223 Remington and .204 Ruger are too close to identical.

As for pictures I learned how to use the now ole timey film Canon A1 that had just enough processor built into a SLR to make it easy. My new Canon with TV screen and memory card and seemingly thousands of silly symbols further confusing a multi-level menu that I still fail to comprehend, I’m sure is plenty capable if I will ever take the time to learn to drive the dang thing. I still prefer MS-DOS in a box where I decide what happens and who goes where and Windows is a silly file manager for stupid people that can’t write a .bat file. The worst of my photo sharing problems is the price I pay for the location out here where the choice is dish or dial-up. A single “still” takes forever and video is impossible. I love the digital’s no film processing and huge memory and sometimes photo document my junk before and during destruction to boost my own failing memory. At this time sharing with the world from here is just not practical. AT&T stopped advancing DSL 1 ½ miles west from here over two years ago.

When I stumbled across this forum one of the first things to attract my closer attention was a photo with what looks to be the BR Pivot in use. I thought it to be home built then saw very similar on the Midway site. As soon as I recover from the Remington one of dem critters is going to have a new home. “As is” will be fine from the back of my Dodge but circumstances now limit nearly all my shooting to my own yard and for any degree of relative comfort semi-reclined seating with elevated feets is required. The recliner model needs an extended wheelbase, separately adjustable leg/foot rests split to both sides of the standpipe, and opposing tapered roller bearings if not already part of the design. Early April delivery will be fine. I’ll use it from the ground until the tower is ready.

The Remington project somehow managed to go from the search for a .308 bolt face action for a 260 Remington build, to an overpriced 2nd owner VLS that came in 260, and on to the NIB VLS in .204 Ruger that I got for $30 over Brownell’s price for the new action alone. It took 35 years for me to notice that I will only gain ~300 FPS by going from the likes of 6x47 to the .243 Win. size case slingin the same slug while burning up so much more powder. You’ll bout got me too chicken to even try light loads with the 6 ½ in .204 or .223. At about the same time I was trying to blow up that 10” Hornet I found that a Marlin 783 .22 Mag. will fire even if the bolt is not fully closed. It makes a mess of your face (wear the stupid lookin glasses people!) and the gun for such a dinky round. Thanks for sharing. I’m going to give the action and barrel every opportunity to deliver before it goes to the doctor. The safety on the Jewell needs a tiny bit more clearance but with only dry firing to compare, that thing it is from another world.

I like your sense of humor.