SmallCaliberCentral

I've been reading these forums for a bit and doing some research online and decided to go ahead and purchase a .204.

First I want to say the forums and information here have been really helpful in my research. I've read a lot of opinions, specs, reviews and other posts that have helped me in narrowing my decision. I'm looking for something for longer range groundhogging and a good amount of paper punching. I'm currently using a .17 rimfire and an old Anschutz 22 hornet that I want to retire and refinish the stock on. So I'm down to a few rifles to make a decision from and I'm trying to decide between a Remington and a Howa, I had looked at Ruger no 1 but accuracy seems to be an issue on those and cost is an issue. Thought about a TC Contender also but haven't seen much on them as far as accuracy in the .204 and a stock barrel.

So I'm down to a Rem and a Howa and I'm hoping to get some feedback and maybe point out if I've missed anything. I've been trying to decide on a model for the past 2 weeks but can't seem to make up my mind.

Remington
Pros:
Availability of parts and accessories, gunsmiths to work on them and prechambered custom barrels, serviceable trigger from factory.
Cons:
Some duds (more rifles produced = more duds produced), may not be the best of customer service from large company.

$750 - $850 700 VLS blued, laminated stock, 26" (Standard model)
$790 - $890 700 VL SS Thumbhole stainless, laminated stock, 26" (Nicer stock, stainless, slightly better trigger though would still be replaced)


Howa
Pros:
Haven't found a disagreeable review, good reputation as an OEM, possible to get barreled action only
Cons:
May not find too many readily available parts (Timmey trigger is available), barrel replacement and smitting might be a possible issue, bedding knowledge may not be readily available, would have to find older thumbhole stock

$625 - $750 (stainless) 1500 Varmint Thumbhole, laminated stock, 24"
$575 - $675 (blued) 1500 Varmint Thumbhole, laminated stock, 24"
$425 - $460 1500 Barreled Action bbl, stainless, 24"
$390 - $440 1500 Barreled Action bbl, 24"
$220 - $240 Bell and Carson stock


I've seen some numbers on barrel length and velocities but if I remember correctly there wasn't any info on a 26" barrel so I don't really know if it would be a benefit or hindrance. Anyhow, any comments are appreciated.

Thanks

Have you looked at the savage lines and cz s
Both are shooting very acurate out of the box a little over $500. can get you a cz 527 varmint or american with a set trigger
A little bit $ or less will get you a savage both are good shooters
Savage has the accue trigger witch is very easy to adjust.
OH ya welcome

Brother got a Savage 12 FCV with the accutrigger and I got the Rem 700 SPS Varmint and I have to say his rifle blows doors on mine. The action is amazing and the trigger is really really nice. I loved Remington and still do, but I am going to go Savage next time around.

First of all welcome to the forum! I have a Remington 700 VLSS Thumbhole and she's a shooter. With that said, some folks have gotten turkeys from Remington. Futuretrades has a Howa and he does quite well with it. I think that the Remington looks better, has more "options" available and I really like the thumbhole stock. Gary

FWIW, I'll be able to give an unbiased review of my new CZ 527 Varmint I just picked up after this weekend's maiden trip (saturday to zero at the range at 200 yards and then a PD trip on Sunday). It impressed me on the counter with the quality, everything is very well machined and it feels like quality. The one nit-pick so far is the grain of the stock is 'ruger boring' straight grain wood. If they had a kevlar in stock, I suspect I would have gotten that instead. There are many R700s in stock locally but I just wasn't impressed and the recent, apparent quality control problems kept me away and I always wanted a chance to try a CZ weapon. I have a 93R17 BVSS in 17hrm and the accuracy is great but the quality was a bit disappointing (action screws loose, weaver mounts loose, poor alignment of magazine well to stock) but after correcting those I'm very happy with it since it delivers where it counts. I cannot comment how the Savage 12 is, but again this drove me to try a CZ for the first time, it was about $650 at a local Sportsman's Warehouse.

Thanks guys, I'll take another look at the Savages and CZs.

I had heard good things about the Savages and their accuracy but there were problems with workmanship. I also just have an old aversion to the brand. I know they have done a lot in the past few years to improve quality and put out a better product but I just can't get past what I think of when I see the brand. Kind of aggravates me too, I'm a technical person by nature and profession and #s should be all that matters but just tough in this case.

The CZ looks good and I like the rifle and their products but I had heard of mediocre accuracy from them although I could be wrong. My nephew is actually been looking at 17 Fireball in one for damage control on some deer that have gotten thick on a few of his farmed fields (headshots with low report). I'll do some more research on them today.

The local gun store has a used Kimber in 204 but I'm probably going to pass on it, Bought an 80C .22 about 15 years ago it never fired well and they have discontinued the model and won't support them and I don't want to be stuck in that situation again. Looks like a nice rifle though.

Captqc, that Remy does look nice, I've shot one in 22-250 and enjoyed it. If it weren't for the QA issues going with one would probably be a no brainer but I gotta think real hard about the gamble.

If you're contemplating a Remington and then some custom work on top of that (like you mentioned), why not just buy something like a Cooper? You know exactly what you're getting when you pick up one of those. By the time you finish tinkering around with the Remmy, you'll likely have as much invested as Cooper would cost anyway. If you ever sell, the Cooper will hold its value WAY better than the Remington as well.

Buy whatever makes you happy, but in my opinion there's no comparison.

In your shoes, I'd have to agree with Mike. I've got CZ's, lots of Remmy's, and shoot with friends that have Howa's. For the money I've poured into Remingtons to make them "up to grade" in terms of triggers, barrels, bedding, et al, I'd have been money ahead just buying a Cooper right out of the gate. In the end you've got a rifle that will just 'feel' right, will most likely shoot much better, will definetely LOOK better, has better components and workmanship, and have a higher resale value in the end. (I also have an aversion to Salvages, and for the same reasons you state....)

This is the exact reason the last two varmint rifles I've purchased have been Coopers, and I'm contemplating my next. They shoot bugholes right out of the box, no work required........

Rick in Oregon wrote:This is the exact reason the last two varmint rifles I've purchased have been Coopers, and I'm contemplating my next. They shoot bugholes right out of the box, no work required........

I wasn't going to mention the addiction, but in the interest of full disclosure it is only fair to warn mshelton that Coopers tend to multiply prolifically.

Mike: I've known it to be termed "The Cooper Curse".......

Really though, when you look at a Remchestage you've dumped almost $2K into, it's still a Remchestage. When you look at, or shoot a Cooper, the smile must be removed surgically, and you just know you've made the right decision.

Oh I've looked at the Coopers...a lot, then looked again..and again. I can see how they would multiply.

The local gunstore has a few second hand ones that I have been looking at, a 22-250, couple 270s a 243 and a 220 Swift (came close to picking this up but the barrel burner reputation put me off) but so far no 204s.

I've seen nothing bad at all about them (short of some political grumblings, which last time I checked had no effect on group size), I just don't know about dropping the cash down on one. I'm not saying they aren't worth it, quite the opposite, compared to what the next level/cost in accuracy would be, the Coopers are a deal. I've always thought about what I want to see in the cabinet 20 years from now when I bought a gun.

The only problem, well besides the cost, I see with buying a Cooper is that I know that I would be overly worried about harming or scratching the gun, not that I'm looking for a piece to abuse but something I can carry in the truck or farm vehicle and not worry too much if I do ding the stock or something.

They are definitely some nice rifles though and from everything I hear, if they don't shoot right, Cooper will make them shoot right. I'm still not ruling one out.

Well then, in that case, consider a Cooper Phoenix in 204. Captqc here has one, I've seen it shoot, and he's about as happy with it as can be. The synthetic stock of the Phoenix may be just the ticket for you then........

Mike wrote:If you're contemplating a Remington and then some custom work on top of that (like you mentioned), why not just buy something like a Cooper? You know exactly what you're getting when you pick up one of those. By the time you finish tinkering around with the Remmy, you'll likely have as much invested as Cooper would cost anyway. If you ever sell, the Cooper will hold its value WAY better than the Remington as well.

Buy whatever makes you happy, but in my opinion there's no comparison.

Just went through that dilemma myself: was gonna add a stock and trigger to my Remington but found a Cooper for a little less than the Remmy plus ugrades would total. And yes, I was worried about putting a scratch in it at first, but plan on enjoying it; someday it'll be my only .204, and besides, it's gotta "earn its keep." Plus, I got around that problem in a way: I bought a sweet little Model 38 Phoenix in .221 Fireball to handle "walking" duties and to keep the 21 company. See, you can't own just one Cooper - it's just not possible.
If, however a person had a limit of, say, 800 bucks for a .204, a CZ 527 Kevlar (detachable mag, set trigger) would be worthy of a place his short list.

We sell Howa rifles where I work and customers have been happy with the accuracy. I got a Remington last year in 17 Fireball, they are about the only ones that make them, yes Cooper makes them. I did not want a single shot for this rifle as I wanted it for pelts as well as sage rats. I put a custom stock on it, trigger job and the action worked on. It will not shoot under an inch, even with load development work. I have 2 Savages in 204 that put 3 shots under a dime at 100 yards out of the box. They have nice adjustable triggers. Some people do not like the old Savages but they still had a strong reputation for accuracy. I really like my Savages, especially my thumb hole rifle. Just made a 20 VarTarg with a Savage action, right bolt and left port, that shoots 1/4 inch groups on the first day at the range. It has a custom barrel and nice synthetic stock that fits my big hands better than the much thinner Cooper stocks. It cost much less than a Cooper. I also have a CZ 527 in 223, nice rifles with pretty good accuracy. They have a singe set stage trigger that is adjustable, very nice trigger. Do not get me wrong, Coopers are very nice rifles and would love to have one. If I can buy two rifles that will shoot as good or better than a Cooper for about the same amount of money, that is where my money will go on my budget.

Sidewinderwa, would you say the accuracy between the CZ and Savages are similar or do the Savages you've seen out perform the CZs by a considerable amount?


By the way, nice signature picture.