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I am thinking on building a 11 twist 204. What is the advantages over a 12 or 13 twist for the 39 or 40 gain bullets?

SmallCaliber wrote:I am thinking on building a 11 twist 204. What is the advantages over a 12 or 13 twist for the 39 or 40 gain bullets?

To sum it up, not all factory 1:12 barrels will stabilize a 40gr or heavier bullet. Some won't stabilize 39 grain, but the Sierra 39 is enough different than the Hornady 40 so most 1:12 barrels stabilize it just fine. You have 5 or 6 bullets from major manufacturers to choose from under 40 grains, and another few from small manufacturers. If you really only need to shoot 39gr or under, the factory 1:12 twist has been proven to be not only plenty deadly, but highly entertaining. I've said it here before that I'm not sure the niche the .204 was created for is retained when shooting 40gr and heavier bullets anyway. To me, it's at it's best when pushing the 32-35 grain bullets at ~4000fps. Once you start shooting heavier bullets, you're shooting them slower, and while you're still getting great ballistics because of the smaller diameter, there may be more effective cartridges to look at when shooting in windy conditions, or over 3-400 yards.

I don't know if many here will agree with me on the above opinions, but it's my honest feeling on the matter. I'd love to say the .204 will beat the world at anything, but it won't. Every gun, just as every knife, or every motor vehicle, has it's niche to fill.

That said, if I ever order another custom twist barrel, it'll be 1:11, so hah! Carry on... Welcome to the 204um!

smallcal: Ah ha! Another convert eh? Go ahead and build that 11 twist 204, you won't regret it, I promise.

I built my 11 twist on a stainless M700 short action, blueprinted it, added a Jewel HVR trigger w/safety, H-S Precision stock, and a Pac-Nor Super Match Stainless 11 twist, 3-groove barrel with 60/11* crown at 24" in length built to the factory Remington varmint contour. It's both pillar and glass bedded (all aluminum bedding block stock benefit from further beddding by the way) and shoots the 39gr SBK into bugholes at 100 yards. It has launched ground squirrels here at the 580 yard mark, as far as I've shot it so far.



The idea here was to build a 204 Ruger that would thrive on the 39 and 40gr bullets, and that she does quite well, thank you. I use my 12 twist 204's for the 32's, the Berger 35, and as both my 12 twist guns like the 39gr SBK, they get used occasionally too, but I save "SPOD", or the "Silver Princess of Death" for the heavier offerings, as that's what I built her for. It stays right with my Swift shooting 55's out to 500 yards in terms of trajectory and wind deflection.

Personally, if I had to have ONE 204 rifle, it would have an 11 twist barrel screwed on for all bullet weights.

I am currently encountering problems with my Remington 700 not shooting 39 or 40 grain bullets, and from the sounds of it I'm not alone. When I get enough ambition/money I'll be getting an 11 twister. Its funny that Ruger Remington and Savage would settle on a twist rate that is just on the cusp of stabilizing some of the basic bullet weights available for the caliber.

When is Remington going to get this rifle twist thing down? First the .244 Rem and now my .204 is goofed up! What next?

All hail SPOD!

Good information there Rick, thanks.

My experience with 40 grainers in a 1 in 12 twist has been described previously:

I was shooting an almost new Savage 12 Low Profile, at rockchucks about 650 lasered yards away. Neither I, nor my shooting partner (shooting a Cooper .204), could reach them, no matter how much elevation we gave the rifles. The shots fell short in puffs of dust.

My conclusion is that the bullets were not adequately stabilized to go that distance, before becoming unstable, wobbling, and then tumbling harmlessly into the field far short of the chucks. We have successfully engaged rockchuck terrorists at this distance, and at this location, with 6mm Remingtons, .240 Weatherbys, 25-06s, and 7mm Weatherbys. The .204 would not go the distance in this particular situation.

For this, I would recommend an 11 twist, or perhaps a 10, and at least 39 grainers with better ballistic coefficients, loaded hot.

Both my (supposedly 1-12 twist) Savage 12's.... a LRPV and a VLP in .204 RUGER will shoot (BARE) 39gr. Sierra BlitzKing's (at 600 measured yards) into precise 10 shot groups on a calm day, that could easily drop any ground squirrel, prairie dog or rockchuck that lives. The problem at 600 yards is the shooter must have the required skills necessary to be able to judge wind drift and range to shoot with any accuracy. These rifles and loads have the precision to group, but the shooter must be accurate also, in order to hit at long range. Granted, I load them HOT (3900+fps) but they are performing well. Always work up your loads, watching for indications of excessive pressures. Bullets coated with HBN or WS2 will require that you use more powder to get similar velocities as BARE bullets. YMMV
http://WWW.LongRangeBPCR.com

venison_burger wrote:I am currently encountering problems with my Remington 700 not shooting 39 or 40 grain bullets, and from the sounds of it I'm not alone. When I get enough ambition/money I'll be getting an 11 twister. Its funny that Ruger Remington and Savage would settle on a twist rate that is just on the cusp of stabilizing some of the basic bullet weights available for the caliber.

When is Remington going to get this rifle twist thing down? First the .244 Rem and now my .204 is goofed up! What next?

All hail SPOD!

It's hard to blame the rifle makers for this issue. Especially Remington and Savage...

20 caliber rifles did not begin with the 204 Ruger. Some folks had been shooting 20 caliber rifles for years. When the 204 Ruger first hit the dealer shelves, there were only two factory 20 caliber bullets. One was a short 36 grain Berger HP and the other was a 33 grain Hornady.

Not too many years prior to the 204 Ruger, a 13" twist 20 caliber barrel was the standard because it would shoot the available factory and custom bullets very well. As folks started going to a longer heavier bullet, the 12" twist barrel came into vogue just several years prior to the 204 Ruger.

Then when the 204 Ruger landed and became popular, bullet makers tried to fill consumer needs and stated making 39 and 40 grain bullets whose length made them marginal in a 12" twist barrel. Why did they make them the length they did...? Because they were not in tune with what really would work in a 12" twist barrel, and a longer bullet looked "sexier and better". Hence they made what they made which had a length that again was marginal in a 12" twist barrel. That coupled with the fact that cheapy trend factory barrels may not be true 12" twist barrels and you have bullet maker created issues with stability..

Years prior to the 204 Ruger I had been hand swaging my own 20 caliber bullets. I finally settled on a 38 grain HP for larger animals like coyotes that was short enough to fully stabilize in any 12" twist barrel around - custom at that time, and later the factory 12" barrels. There is no need for the length of the bullets that factories are turning out today - and their length is the cause of the instability in some 12" twist barrels. The shorter Hornady 45 grain bullet - in comparison to their 40 grain bullet - shows that shorter heavier bullets are possible.

What a shorter bullet gives up in BC is minimal at best for the normal ranges a 204 Ruger would be used. Yet if bullet makers reduced the length of the current bullets, shooters would likely complain the bullets just "don't look right" in comparison to what they are used to seeing... Shooters would rather buy what looks best on the table and in their computer ballistic program versus what really might actually shoot well in their rifles. Yet the difference in trajectory at 350 yards is probably less than an inch at most due to different BC's...

As for the 244, Remington "got it right" in 1955 for their intended purpose of the rifle - simply a high velocity, light bullet weight varmint round. Winchester saw their competing round in the 243 Win as being a combination varmint/deer round capable of shooting longer, heavier bullets. This appealed to shooters more and the 244 nearly died. When it was re-introduced as the 6MM Rem, it was designed with a barrel twist (9") to stabilize longer heavier bullets than the cartridge was originally designed to shoot. However, if you want a truly accurate custom 6mm Rem today for varmint hunting only with shorter, lighter bullets, a 9" twist barrel is not the best choice...

-BCB

I have a 24" 3 groove 1 - 11" twist Pac-Nor barrel on my REM 700 (204), it shoots 32 gr to 40 gr Bullets with no problem. However, the 40 gr bullets it will shoot Vmax with no problem, but shoot the Nosler 40 gr B-Tips good. If I had to do it all over again, I would go 1 in 10".