SmallCaliberCentral

Hey guys. Wanted to do one last little poll. I have talked to RIO already. He has given me a many pointers and have really really helped me out. But, I was wondering if anyone else has any personal experience with either of the barrels below and would also like to help me out. P.S. RIO....now I have it down to two, so feel free to chime in again if you would like....

I am wanting to rebarrel and maybe have a little custom work done to my LRPV. I will probably quit being a PANZY and buy the go gauges, action wrench, and barrel nut wrench for my LRPV and twist the barrel on by myself . I am just a perfectionist and it takes me awhile to talk myself into doing this stuff even though I am more than capable(especially with a savage...i know...i know...)

I have narrowed it down to 2 barrel choices with a NO Taper; 60/11 degree target crown; and more than likely a 28" barrel verses a 26" barrel b/c this is just a prairie poppin gun and sits on a bench, so wieght isn't an issue!.....


So here is my poll.......Lilja OR Shilen.....


Pick one and tell why....

Thank you very much Gentlemen! -Dan

Of those two, I have been slightly happier with Lilja(owned two, know of others), but the wait for a Lilja is sometimes way too long. So my favorite gunsmith would get Shilen with little or no wait, and they are good prairie dog barrels, smooth and easy to clean. I have owned many.
Is there a reason not to consider Pac-nor? That would be my first choice now.

You Can Call Jim Briggs at Northland Shooters Suppy at 763-682-4296. He carries barrels for your Savage ready to go. He carries two brands Shilen and McGowen. My McGowen in 6.5x284 is very nice, shoots great and cleans well. He used his Shilen to shoot a P-dog at 703 yards, from his 22-250. You can't go wrong with either.

22 Mag

I talked with Jim for about an hour yesterday. He is a very knowledgeable man! Let me in on a great many secrets..... That is where I will get a barrel if I go with a Shilen....

Hotshot: Reason I didn't add Pac-nor is b/c I have talked with 2 different gentlemen that loved their Pac-nor's in their .204's, but accuracy severly dropped off after 2,500-3,000 rounds....... What kind of experience have you had with them? How many rounds down the pipe. They were originally in my top 3, but my reasoning for not putting them in my poll would be that those 2 gentlement didn't get very many rounds outta them. Would you put Pac-nor over Shilen then? I need some personal experiences to help my choice..... Thanks much guys!

One more thing......does the Lilja come ready to thread on to my savage or will I have to send the barrel somewhere to get it crowned. I was looking on their website and all they say is that they do "no gunsmithing". Thanks

-Dan

I've got a few Lilja's and love the rifles they are on. My 204 has a kreiger and my 20 cal wildcat has a Shilen. All the research I've done and opinion I've solicited is that there is not a whole lot of difference between any of the custom barrel makers

I think you can get Shilen or Pac-nor crowned, chambered, and threaded for you Savage. I don't think Lilja offers that option.
The reason I prefer Lilja is they last longer from my experience. But that is not a scientific analysis-more of a gut feeling. I have one on a 220 Swift that is exceptional. I've worn out plenty of Swift barrels over the years, but I've yet to wear out a 204 barrel.
This is probably like Fords or Chevys, some swear by 'em and some swear at 'em.

Danny, you're on the right track, but consider this: One of my Pac-Nor barrels, my 223 Ackley on Black Death has over 5,000 rounds of hot PD and squirrel smackin' loads through her, and last season accounted for more than one 500+ yard shot on ground squirrels (which are about 1/3 the size of an adult prairie dog). I usually cryo my barrels also, as this really adds to the service length of the barrel. No scientific data to back that up, just actual experience based on what I do.

I have not had it on paper for quite a spell, but as it's launching Skippy past 500, it seems to be doing what it was intended to do, so have not bothered. A full 90% of my shooting is at hair, not paper.

As you know, I've got barrels from all the makers you are considering. It's time to step up to the plate and make your own decision based on what you know now. As has been mentioned, ANY barrel from one of the top makers will serve you well, and there's probably not a hill of beans of difference in regard to accuracy longivity between them either. The ony thing that would really make a difference here, assuming steels of equal quality, is to cryo treat the barrel before using it. JMO

Yes, that is the kind of info I am looking for. I had originally planned on a Pac-nor or lilja. Jim at Northland Shooter Supply recommended a shilen based on personal experiences, longevity, and quick availability. Not too bad of a price either...

To be totally honest, at first i really had in mind a pac-nor or lilja. That is quite a few rounds through your AI Rick! That is very good, darn good b/c I thought the .223ai was a kinda warm round.

You are all right, I agree that any custom barrel will probably all be within ballpark of one another. Now you know how I can beat a subject to death in research. I am too much of a type A personality and get myself into trouble with too much research sometimes.

Okie dokie.....now... I have ton of 40gr vmax's(prolly 3,000 bullets) b/c that is what my LRPV liked to eat morning noon and night. I know very few 1 in 12 twists like those, so should I move to a 1 in 11 or a 1 in 10 twist for a little heavier bullet. I don't plan on shooting anything over 40 grs. I like the 32grs, but we hunt in SD where the wind seldom lays down and I think i finally shot the last of those that I had loaded up. So i find myself reaching for the few 39 grainer's I have loaded(they are a little more expensive!!) or the abundant 40gr vmaxes I have.

So, a couple more questions. Go for a 1 in 11, or a 1 in 10 twist???

Where is the best place to sign up for a Pac-nor? Directly from their website? And RIO, where do you have yours cryo'd at?, that is something to look into. I know JP rifles cryo a lot of their stuff....

Thanks again guys it is all very much appreciated!.......sometimes i just need a kick in the rear to get me goin!

Danny, call Penny at Pac-Nor; you can order the barrel on line, then call her about the order once you've posted it. She can arrange to have the barrel cryo'd here in the Northwest, then it goes back for final fitting/shipping.

As for twist, my last custom rig was a 204 Ruger, and for the 39's and 40's, I went with an 11 twist, Pac-Nor Super Match Stainless using my custom reamer. The reamer has a 'no-turn' neck, all SAMMI dim's have been tightened up. My print is on file there, and you can have them use my reamer drawing instead of ending up with a SAMMI (sloppy) chamber if wanted. You will be able to shoot 32's to 40's easily with the 11 twist, and your brass will last much longer with the custom reamer should you decide to go that route. PN can/will also do the 11/60* crown, as Casey did mine there.

Danny...........You can't go wrong with either a Lija or Pac-nor barrel. As far as twist rate. My two Hart barreled 204's are 1-12 by 26" in a heavy sendero contour and shoot 40 Bergers, 40 A-maxes and 39 sierra's with out a problem. I under stand Rick is using a pac-nor 1-11 on his 204. I 've had two rifles with shilen barrels, a 1-12 30 cal by 30" and a 6mm 1-12 1.5" by 30" and these barrel got replaced with Hart barrels. I never asked the question when ordering my Hart barrels as to how close there twist rates were to what they advertise!!
Good luck and I'm sure you'll make the right decision..
Later
Ray P.
P.S. Check out link..http://www.204ruger.com/forum/viewtopic ... &sk=t&sd=a

I just replaced the factory tube on my Savage 12 VLP this summer with a Shilen Savage prefit barrel.

The reason I went with this is that due to the fact I am in Canada I don't have the luxury if using just any barrel makers product. A Canadian fella imports these barrels and takes care of all the red tape for a reasonable fee.

I went with the bull profile (1.016"-1.000") and the standard 1-12" twist. Shilen's next twist rate for the .20 cal was a 1-9 which may have been to fast for thin jacketed 32 grain bullets so this is why I went with 1-12" twist. If you can it probably would be wise to go with a 1-11" or 1-10" twist just to be sure the 40 grain pills are stabilized. Mine seems to be okay with the 40 grain bullets but a faster twist for some longer range plinking it would be nice (try some 50 grain Bergers which I doubt I could shoot).

The chamber is just a SAAMI spec chamber but is tighter than what may factory tube had, (I had to pull and resize a lot of my loaded rounds).

If you have a good smith you can have a more personally spec'd barrel fitted but the Shilen prefit worked fine for me. I know of good smiths up here but the wait time and expense is just to far beyond my means so the Savage barrel system was a real dollar saver for me.

Thanks for all your help gentlemen. As you can tell this is my first time buying a barrel......that is the reason for all the questions. I cannot thank you all enough for all your advice. I really do appreciate it. I will be ordering a barrel tomorrow morning when I get home from work. Hopefully have it before too long. I cannot wait. Thanks again guys, I have missed all your help and you guys really stepped up to the plate for me on this one. Thanks. -Dan

I have heard, from several sources, barrel stock for ALL of the barrel manufacturers comes from the SAME supplier. Quality of material does not differ between them.

Quality of material MAY differ from order to order that they receive.

To put this in perspective, not one barrel manufacturer orders enough stock in a year's time to dictate what chemical makeup the barrel material is....as compared to other consumers of metal.

Danny, It's easier for me to get a european barrel than an american one, but, I have Pac-nors in .14 and .243caliber and an 11 twist .204 on its way, and i'm ready to place an order with Penny for a .17 barrel now the new import/export regs. have been sorted out. I don't do high volume shooting , so longevity is not an issue for me. I love my Pac-Nors. PS. went for 11 twist 204 after advice from a longstanding well known member. Regards, Ken.

I have a Shilen Select Match Savage Replacement barrel in .204 Ruger, and it is just phenomenally accurate. I have a Pac-Nor Super-Match barrel in .22-250 they installed with a 1:10 twist for 50 grain Varmint Grenades, it is just phenomenally accurate. The Shilen took a bit over 3.5 months to arrive. I am expecting a Pac-Nor barrel which was shipped yesterday, in .223 Remington for a Savage action, it took ten weeks.

Shilen made a mistake on their first barrel, it wouldn't screw on to the action! I sent them the action and barrel so they could correct the problem. They returned it in two weeks, engraved the caliber on it for free. When I ordered another and mentioned it cost me $94 in shipping the first back, they discounted the second barrel by $100. That's good customer service.

I like both barrels, because you don't have to send them off for threading or chambering, just screw them on. I like Pac-Nor because there's a great fish and chips joint at the Brookings Harbor if you pick up or drop off work. If you order from them, place it on the telephone, there are questions that can be asked and answered immediately, and they are very friendly.

I also have another barrel in (gulp) .243 WSSM coming from Sharp Shooters Supply, it's a Brux cut rifled barrel.

Whatever you buy, you will have the satisfaction of learning.