SmallCaliberCentral

As many of you know, I have been speaking about my displeasure with the Remington 700. I know I did not buy the proper gun that was to meet my expectations. It was all my fault, because for the last 14 years or so, I have been shotgunning and not following rifles.

I am writing this because there are lots of new people that come onto this site looking for information. Had I known the triggers were so difficult to deal with, that would have disqualified the gun. Secondly, the stock was pretty flimsy and not very well made.

Thirdly, the gun just shot horribly from the beginning. But, after putting on a new trigger, laminated stock and fully bedding it, it still did not shoot well.

The latest endeavor, was to recrown the barrel. That helped a lot and at least it would group. But the groups were still not acceptable. So, I shimmed the barrel and forend near the end of the barrel and then use acraglass gel to form a pad. I put just a few ounces of pressure on the barrel and accuracy did improve. This a.m. I added a piece of black tape to put a little more pressure on the barrel(.006). I figured that I would continue adding tape until the guns patterns improved even more.

I just got done shooting two groups, after resighting, and it shot two nice 1/2" groups with both the 35 gr. Berger with 27 grains of H335. The 34 gr. bullets from midsouth were right in the mix as they shoot to the same poa.

This has been a journey I would rather have not taken, but at least the results were worth it.

Next time, I would research more and spend more money to get what I wanted from the beginning. I hope this post might be some help for some.

Lenard

I for am glad to hear you got things sorted out. Albeit in a time consuming & frustrating way you still got her wrung out. That's the main thing.

Glad to hear you have it sorted out for you. The bedding, recrowning and such tweaking is somewhat enjoyable to do if you already have an accurate rifle and you want to try and squeeze out a bit more accuracy.

BUT...its gotta be a pain in the butt, not to mention expensive, if you have to do it all at once in order to get the gun to shoot well.

From my own (limited) experience I have come to believe that good accuracy in any factory rifle is a bit of a crap shoot. Everyone knows of a factory rifle that is sub-MOA with minimal tweaking and then there are some that will not shoot well until you spend enough on work for it to have bought a second rifle. And I think its safe to say that this will apply to every major manufacturer out there today.

I got lucky with my .204 but I have heard of people with bad experiences with Savage rifles. I hope this experience does not totally turn you off of Remington rifles, I think it is just the nature of the beast that some people are gonna get rifles that just will not shoot, you were unfortunately, just one of these people.

If I had to figure in my time on this job, I could have easily bought a good Cooper. The way it is, I have over $750 in a $500 gun. Doesn't make a lot of sense, but I have been very spoiled with good shooting factory guns. I gave a 700 to my son, that will shoot the eye out of a squirrel at 100 yards. My Sako with a factory HB, will shoot way beyond my expectations. It is simply a crap shoot and I know it.

Thanks to all of you for putting up with my complaning. I guess that in this day of manufacturing, that the buyer is doing the quality control.

Lenard

I am having the same problems that you have with my 700 in 300 RSAUM,

Im going to put it in the back of my gun safe......I have had my first and last Remington.

I am sorry to hear all the trouble you folks have had with Remington. I am happy though, that you posted it. This forum was the last notch in the Remington demise with me. Today I picked up me new Savage VLP DBM in 204 Ruger. I should be able to get out next week to for a test drive. I have never owned a Savage but have read so many positives on this and other forums. I am giving it a shot so to say.. If anyone is interested I will write back with my results. I realize it may not be the accuracy I can expect due to most of the shooting will be the breaking in process. Either way it should be fairely decent, I hope.

darchell, there are two factors that would encourage me to buy either a savage or a cz. One is that the triggers are very good on both of them. The second, I hear very good things about the accuracy of both.

To me the triggers are a big deal. So, if I had been an informed shooter, not relying on Remingtons past output, I would have gone with the two I listed above. I do not mind doing the bedding, in fact, I expect that to wring out the best accuracy potential. Had I not been able to do the work myself, I would have had at least double what I paid for the gun.

When discussing this with my friend at Sportsmans Warehouse, he said most people would not notice or care if the gun was not real accurate. That is why Remington has continued to sell their less than honorable guns to the public.

I would like to hear how the Savage shoots when you get to it.

Lenard

I will post it on the general forum. Figure on sometime next week. I am still waiting on my lading dies and bullets to arrive. I almost bought the Remington VLS as I too was still sold on Remington. I have two Remington rifles that are older and shoot well. This rifle was to be a target / varmint gun and I wanted to really work on wringing out the most accuracy I could from the rifle. From look alone I am already impressed with the Savage. The fit and finish are very good. In fact my last Remington, a CDL in 300 Rum, does not even come close. For example the recoil pad and rear stock are not cur the same and flaws are very noticeable. As for accuracy it shoots pretty well. I can get the occasional 1" group with it when using hand loads. For shooting at elk or other large game this is plenty accurate. For shooting small varmints at 200 - 300 yards away, it would never do. Obviously I would not use the 300 Rum for such a task. To get back to the Savage I too read about the positives and I believed for my money, $790.00, I got a lot of rifle. Good fit and finish, button rifles, floated barrel, good trigger, pillar bedded and stainless bull barrel that is fluted. The stock is a laminate with a detachable magazine. The magazine has a very sturdy metal hasp and is made of metal with a stainless bottom. Most of the Remington's I have seen are going with more and more plastic to cut costs. Remington has the VLS that is similar to the VLP. The difference is the barrel on the Remington is not fluted and not stainless. Other than the other quality issues, not floated or bedded etc, it should be the same. Even the stock is the same, wood laminate. The morale to all this is the weight. The Remington even though it is not fluted, is 8.5 pounds according t other web site. The Savage is 10 pounds. One would think the two guns should be closer in weight and if anything the Savage should be lighter given it is a fluted barrel. Something is missing in the Remington. I don't know if it is the stock or the quality steal, or plastic in places I can't figure. All of this went into my decision. Now hopefully I am not writing next week saying dam I made a mistake. I don't think I will but time will tell. Good luck with yours and I will write back next week with some new info.

I think the remington is lighter is weight because it has a slimmer stock and a little bit more taper on the barrel vs. the savage. Also the flutes on the savage aren't that deep so you really won't see much weight difference with the way they flute there barrel. The last two remington's i bought should not have left the factory. First was a .204 light varmint and the recoil lug was cracked and the front action screw was too tight and i couldn't get the bolt in. the screw stripped out when i tried to remove it. the second one was a sps varmint and i tried four different brands of ammo and it pierced primers on all of them. both were in .204. so glad i bought a CZ that thing shoots small groups with all bullets!!!!!!!!!

gather up all your rem 700 and send them to me I have the patience.

I realize it may not be the accuracy I can expect due to most of the shooting will be the breaking in process.

Hey, you might be suprised. After I bought my Savage 204 LPV, installed the scope, I loaded up a fairly low starting load, went out to the gun club strictly to get my scope zeroed in. I was all over the target of course zeroing it in and my wife was watching through my spotting scope at the next bench. After I zeroed it, I told her heck with this, I can't get comfortable today, I'm shooting these last 3 shells and were outt'a here. Then she said, Holy Crap, wait till you go get your target. All three were a ragged hole easily covered by a dime.

JD11

Sounds like you have an exceptional Savage, or for that matter any brand that would shoot like that. Savage has not rested on their laurels like Remington and have continued to improve their product. In crusing the varies sites, I have yet to come across a post that bashed Savage guns, because they did not shoot well. As I stated before, I bought Remington because they used to make very accurate and good rifles. From my experience in life, I find that when bean counters buy companies, they quickly get out of touch of what the public wants in quality. Their predominant thought is "making the most money."

I hope your Savage continues to shoot so well.

Lenard.....Not that I want to back Remington arms. But all gun manufactures try to make economy rifles and some shoot and some don't. I have two Remington Senderos that shoot like a house on fire. Two Remington 700's that have been re-stocked and re barreled. One had a J-lock and that got replaced by a speed loc. The speed lock one, also got a new rifle basix's trigger, because the factory won't adj to my liking. These last two Remington 700's were an ADL and SPS and both in factory Ruger 204 caliber. I shoot both Ruger rifles and Sako's so I'm not tring to be bias in any way. But some rifles do need some or a lot of tweaking to fine tune! I'm happy yours came together and sorry it was an expensive learning curve.
Glad things worked out.
Later
Ray P

Lenard wrote:.....In crusing the varies sites, I have yet to come across a post that bashed Savage guns, because they did not shoot well. As I stated before, I bought Remington because they used to make very accurate and good rifles. From my experience in life, I find that when bean counters buy companies, they quickly get out of touch of what the public wants in quality. Their predominant thought is "making the most money."

lenard:

I wish you had been around about 4-5 years ago. I would have given you a new Savage I had bought. With it..... About now you'd probably just be leaving the airport on your long journey.

It was a piece of crap like none other I have ever bought from anyone.... Accuracy was just one of its several problems.... simply getting a factory 223 Remington cartridge from the magazine into the chamber was a huge challenge in itself.

In contrast, the last three 700's I've bought (a LVSF in 221 FB, a LVSF in 17 Remington, and an SPS in 17 Rem FB) have all been excellent shooters right out of the box with no tinkering needed. I did put the SPS in an H-S Precision stock, but it shot well in the factory stock, too. I just didn't like the feel of the factory SPS stock and felt the rifle deserved a better stock since it was a very good shooter.

They are all mass produced factory rifles. And every manufacturer makes a few lemons. Its just not fashionable to whine about some of them like it is with a Remington. You obviously need to broaden your internet horizons if you want to play rifle Messiah to the multitudes... Places like this don't exist because all Savage rifles are perfect...

http://www.savagegunsmithing.com/Accuri ... ifles.html

-BCB

Sorry, Hawkeye...edited for clarity ...

I bought a Rem 700 SPS Varmint in 204. So far I have been really impressed with the groups. The main reason I bought this one is that the other 2 I have too have been great shooters. Sendero 22-250 & 270 custom......sorry to hear about yours.