overcomming BIG BORE syndrome

[sniper model 12]

I have a co-worker that shoots nothing but .270. If someone is talking with me about my .204 and the various things I've shot, he'll go out of his way to enter the conversation to bash the "little bb gun". At first I thought it was me. . . then I over heard him one day discussing guns with a complete stranger and was bashing both the .17's (machs and hmr) as well as the 204 on "IF ya hit something it won't die right away and you'll have to run it down and finish it off. Buy something big and you won't be disappointed, especially for coyotes."

He shows no respect for anyone who shoots something smaller than a .243, which he says, "has limited hunting abilities".

How do you politely discuss firearms and small calibers with someone who suffers from "BIG BORE" syndrome? How does one dispell myths spread by a Big Bore syndrome person?

Frustrated 204 sniper. . . . .

[Ruger No. 1]

Just go get a 50 BMG and ask him who has the small bore now.

[Hotshot]

sniper,

That's going to be a tough one. You might start out by complimenting the 270 as one of the best big game hunting rounds and maybe that will mellow him out a little.
Seems to me the key to a clean one shot kill on an animal would be good bullet placement with enough energy to dispatch the critter and most reasonable hunters would have to be in agreament with that statement. So that is what makes a 460 an elephant rifle, a 375 a great grizzly cartridge, and a 270 awesome for dear and antelope. If he is still with you in the conversation at this point, tell him how a 204 helps you make precise hits on coyotes and the bullets you use deliver plenty of energy to do the job.

Not everybody is a student of ballistics and he might not understand. Maybe he will give you a chance to teach him a little and maybe he won't.

Or you could just slap him on the side of his head and tell him if he was a better shot he would kill those coyotes dead with a smaller caliber. Your discussion would probably be over.

[crazy2medic]

First of all you are talking apples and oranges! the .270 is an okay deer cartridge(30.06 is better) .204 is a varmint cartridge! it's not intended to kill deer it's meant to reach out and touch very small animals at extended ranges, tell him if he's so sure of his 270, you would be more than happy to take him on in a challenge of shooting eggs off of coke cans! 3 eggs each! one at 200yds one at 300yds and one at 400yds! the first to break all three eggs w/o hitting the coke cans wins from the other a free lunch! for what the .204 is meant to do it has very few equals! everytime he opens his mouth he proves his lack of knowledge!

an ignorant person hasn't learned, a stupid person refuses to learn!

[Bayou City Boy]

Some folks will never shoot or want to shoot the smaller bore diameters for whatever reason/s. Elmer Keith was a good example: He believed anything smaller than a .338" bore diameter in rifles or revolvers was a "pop gun" in his world.

But that doesn't make him an ignorant or stupid person. He was far from it. In the same vane, shooting small bore rifles hasn't turned any of us into Rhodes Scholars....

To each their own..... And why should we care one way or the other if someone wants to shoot a .270 Winchester at everything....? They probably shoot it very well, and it's not a bad choice for a "one gun man"..

JMO - BCB

[acloco]

You are just dealing with a Type A personality that is trying to make up for something else in their personal life. Tis a waste of your time.

[Lee C.]

Sniper, I think acloco is right about this guy.Every one here is here because we like shooting the little 204 caliber rifle. I don't waste much time with closed minded people as i like to learn evey thing i can about guns and reloading. I think if you took a poll to see how only shot the 204 it would only be a few here. I think i have more rounds through my 204 than most of my rifles. But i have about 8 different calibers i reload for and shoot. I know one thing sniper your in with a great bunch of guys here no matter what caliber of rifle you want to talk about.

[sniper model 12]

Yeah, I've tried some complementary talk. We has some free time and I got on Remington's website with him and we compared factory ballistics charts. I supported him in the areas where the .270 is best suited (larger game). I pulled the charts for the .17 HMR, .17 Fireball, and the .204 Ruger. We discussed the charts and how each round effected the impact on tree rats to coyotes. I then took him to this website (204ruger.com) and he browsed the pics in the varmit forum for nearly an hour. Then he said, "How do you know that these fellas shot those critters with that BB gun?" I pointed out that if "those fellas" shot "those critters" with anything bigger than that "bb gun" then there would be different results dependant on the caliber and ballistics.

He is in his 40's and has been hunting for years (he's a shotgunner where ducks are the only treat next to stray dogs with the .270) and I think he has issues geting info from someone half his age on things he knows little about or what he "knows" is not accurate.

Thanks for everyone's input and help. I may continue to bring in my golf balls (fathers day I hit a big sunkist orange @ 300 yd ) and 3/16" to 1/2" thick steel plates drill pressed by the .204 Ruger BB gun

[sniper model 12]

I have learned quite a bit off you fellas over the past years since I bought the .204.....and I haven't looked back.

On Father's day, the inlaws gather at someone's house and the men folk go out back and shoot guns for close to 6 or 7 hours. Each year we bring different calibers and shoot wacky targets from old cell phones to steel toed boots.

This year we went with a .177 Crossman pneumatic, .17 HMR (Savage model 10), .204 Ruger (my rifle, Savage model 12), various .22 rimfire rifles, and a Chek 8mm Mauser and Turkish 8mm Mauser.

Also, a 9mm Taurus (1911 frame), a 7.62 x 25 CZ?, a .380 (Bersa Firestorm), a .40 S&W (Berreta), and a Ruger .45 Cowboy.

10 adults, 8 kids (3ys to 15yrs), and L O T S OF B R A S S

[skipper]

There’s nothing wrong with Big Bores, even though a .270 isn’t what I would call BIG. I have so many magnums my shoulders start shaking every time I open my gun safe. When I started teaching my youngest son how to shoot, I gave up long before he did with his .22. That's when I bought my first .204.

Tell your friend that your bullets are traveling at over 4200 fps. Ask him how fast his go. I swear, one time I thought I saw the hole in the target just before the gun went off. Now that's fast.

Invite him out for a Pdog or rat shoot. Tell him to bring lots of ammo. See who gives out first. He’ll be pushing you aside to get some time on the ole .204.

Ask him if he’s ever seen the red mist. He’s not going to see it with that .270.

[Bayou City Boy]

I dunno...... From experience.....

I have a friend in Montana who occasionally shoots PD's on his ranch with a 270 Win just because he likes to do it. And the red mist has been very plentiful when PD's eat a 110 grain HP. More so than with any small bore caliber rifle I"ve ever shot at PD's over the past 35 years....

In the same vane a 25-06 with 87 grain HP's will "out red mist" anything in 20 caliber. The carnage is not even close.

-BCB

[skipper]

I agree with ya'. I wasn't saying a 270 won't mist 'em. I was more referring to the fact that he probably won't be able to see his hits with a 270.

[glenn asher]

Here's an idea, both of you go to the range, both with 200 rounds of ammo, and see who gives out first I'm a big .270 fan myself, I have two currently, and have had others, and I love them. For deer hunting. Not for "fun shooting", not at all. Mine don't kick bad, they just kick MORE.
A good shooting .270 is certainly a joy, no doubt about it, and they'll splat rats or coyotes quite well, but for a day of prolonged shooting at PDs, they simply aren't much fun by quittin' time.

As for your friend, if he doesn't want to experience the joys of smaller bores, it's less competition for your gunshop's bullet supply, and more for you .

[Bayou City Boy]

Again....from experience.

In my past, I have spent an entire day shooting PD's with a 7MM Rem Mag. Not because I had to, but because I wanted to. When you're snuggled in on bags like you typically have to do on windy days anyway, the recoil is not that great and you don't miss a lot of the red mist action. With a large caliber rifle, the red mist action is generally behind the PD hole for 10-20 yards and you generally get to see it quite well. And on windy days in Wyoming or Montana, etc., when larger caliber rifles shine, free recoil BR techniques aren't going to do much for you anyway.....

Just several weeks ago in SW Wyoming I spent two days shooting a 25-06 Rem 700 Sendero because the wind was really howling and I could not stay on target with 17 and 20 caliber rifles at any extended distances. At the end of neither day did I feel any more tired from shooting than if I had spent the entire day shoot a Tac 20 or a 204 Ruger for example. And I saw a lot of red mist in the process....

Again....just from my experience....YMMV....

-BCB