SmallCaliberCentral

Hi, I have a Ruger .204 M77 Hawkeye. It has a Mueller Eraticator 8.5x25 scope on it, and I shoot Hornady 32 grain V-Max bullets out of it. Ever since I bought the gun (about a year ago) getting/keeping it sighted in has been impossible. While attempting to sight it in again just the other day, I set up a target at 50 yards and 100 yards. There was a light breeze blowing towards the right, but not enough to effect anything I believe. At 100 yards it was right on up&down but it was about 2" to the right. So I moved it to the left a couple clicks(cant remember exactly how many) and shot again. It barely moved, so I switched to the 50 yard target and once again it shot to the right a couple inches. Giving it a couple more clicks to the left I took another couple shots and had it almost perfect. Just a little low at 50 yards (an inch or so) and perfect left to right. So I switched back to the 100 yard target and took a shot. It was 2" to the left now!?! I took two more shots to make sure and now sure enough it was 2" to the left and perfect up&down. So now I started to move it back to the right. Same method, a couple clicks, shoot, a couple clicks, shoot. (I always tap on the knob after adjusting the scope) And then the gun started shooting about an inch high or so! I didn't touch the adjustments for up&down at all. I was using sandbags and was as steady as I could get. Ended up shooting all the ammo I had taken with me (23 rounds) and left no better off than when I started. So I came home and began to do some research. I read that calibers smaller than .22 often have an issue with carbon build up and to clean them really good with J-B Bore Cleaning compound. I don't have any yet, but I ran a bore snake through it 15+ times last night, with Outers Gun Oil and then Rem Oil on it. It looks so clean you could eat off it. While I was doing that I noticed that my scope was barely and I mean BARELY touching the barrel of the gun. It's the part of the scope that adjusts the yardage to clear up the image in the scope, and it's touching so little I can still turn it to adjust the yardage. If it isn't the scope touching or carbon buildup, I have no idea what else it could be, I'm going to shoot again today to see if cleaning it really well solved the problem or not. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated

Sounds to me like a scope problem... Also remember your scope adjustment at 50 yds is 1/8" per click and 1/4" at 100 yds... "a couple of clicks" will move it very little..

And also remember that anything touching the barrel.....anything at all can and usually will change the barrel harmonics, the POI and overall accuracy potential of what may be a fairly accurate rifle.

Other than the mating of scope rings to the scope, NO part of the scope should touch the barrel, not even a tiny amount. If you have contact there, best to consider a different set of rings or change the scope.

I like my scopes as low over the bore as possible, as it gives a good cheek weld, minimizes any effects of minor canting, and keeps the overall bulk of the rifle/scope unit as tidy as possible. To me, it just looks better to have it nice and low compared to hulking high rings putting the scope so high over the rifle it appears to be a carry-handle. There's a compromise of course, and it sounds like you need to raise that scope up a tad so as not to touch the barrel. Then start fresh, and most likely you'll find you're on the right track. Good luck with the project.

+1 on both of the previous replies. If your' scope is THAT close to clearing the barrel, you might try shimming it up as a cheap experiment. You can cut pieces from the thinnest blades of a thickness gauge. If that cures the problem, you can run it as-is or go ring shopping. If you do have a carbon ring, I seriously doubt if a snake will remove it. They are hard, hard, hard! Regardless, that scope has to clear the barrel for accuracy. Best of luck!

Ramos is correct about the shimming. I should have mentioned that the cheapest/quickest way to make a set of shims, is to cut up an aluminum beverage can. Easy to cut, forms to the inside radius well, and may be enough to solve the contact problem. Cut them just narrow enough so as not to be seen when the scope is mounted. You may end up leaving them there and save the cost of a new set of rings.

As for that carbon ring, if it's been left long enough and it's thick enough, it can actually be harder than the barrel steel, and about impossible to remove without much, much work. Better bone-up on extreme barrel cleaning methods if that's the case........

Matthew,,,, some thoughts,,,, when your trying to figure out a problem , dont bring variables into the picture that arent needed,,,,,shooting at targets at 2 differant ranges,,,,, always check the basics,,, make sure barrel is free floating,, action and scope mount screws are properly torqued , if you are attacking carbon in the barrel a couple rounds to warm the barrel before you apply your cleaning solution may help with the carbon,,, if you think your scope is sticking following adjustments hold the gun verticaly and give the butt plate a couple firm blows the ground to jolt the internal tube . last of all how fast are you shooting , some guns get hot and move poi ,,,,,i wish you well,,,,the 204 is such a fun round hope you get to enjoy it

Matthew, You have received 5 good answers for your problem. If you got to the range again you should have found out that cleaning is not the problem. "Just barely touching is the problem". Just barely is still touching and the vibes for each shot will effect it + as the barrel heats up and swells it will get worse. Just barely clearing could be a problem if you shoot a lot in one session or in a hot area.

Carbon rings are a reality with the 204 Ruger. Wet (wet not damp) a patch with the bore cleaner of your choice and push it into the chamber far enough to be in direct contact with the end of the chamber and beginning of the lands and grooves. That is where the carbon ring will be. Leave it there to soak for a couple of hours. Now pull it out and see if the patch has turned black. If so you have a carbon ring problem. You are going to need to scrub that bore with bore paste until you can dissolve the ring. You need to take care of that problem before returning to the range to sight in. Like said previously, the fewer variables the better the results. Hope that helps.

I appreciate everyone's responses, I moved the scope and cleaned it extremely well and the problem seems to be solved. I was driving tacks at 100 yards the other day when I went to sight it in. I'm assuming it was the scope touching the barrel, not a dirty gun.

Excellent! I love it when a plan comes together.

Now you know what to watch for in the future. Good luck with the "new" tack-driver!

I love it when a plan comes through! Have fun shooting a tack driver! Gary

I've done that myself more than once. Loose action screws, loose ring screws, loose screw between the ears. They all seem to make for a frustrating day but once you figure it out, it takes a whole lot of stress off your shoulders. Well done on getting it sorted out.

matthewstreeter100 wrote: I read that calibers smaller than .22 often have an issue with carbon build up and to clean them really good with J-B Bore Cleaning compound. I don't have any yet, but I ran a bore snake through it 15+ times last night, with Outers Gun Oil and then Rem Oil on it.

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All the info from the previous posters is spot on. Looking at your cleaning method though, I might offer some advice. I would suggest, throw the bore snake. as they don't do as good of job, as some would suggest, and there is the chance of the brush breaking off in the barrel during cleaning. I would suggest a good, "one piece" cleaning rod, with some brass brushes,and a few nylon brushes, good patches, and a good bore cleaner, and if you do any amount of shooting, you will want to use a really good carbon cutting cleaner, such as Barnes, CR10. This stuff is where you use the nylon brushes. When done with your cleaning, you might use a collidal graphite on the bore. this will make the job a little easyer next cleaning.