not sure where to start

[itzdirty]

Alright folks. This is my first post here. I am an avid coyote and fox hunter. I spend most of my fall and winter chasing the canines. Though I know some stuff about firearms I am no and expert. I have been trolling around the internet looking for my answers. Several predator hunting specific forums I frequent have folks raving over their .204. Due to some recent changes in our hunting regs here in NY a .204 has become a popular round. I am trying (determined) to make the switch.

I purchased a Howa 1500 (#2 contuour) .204. I would prefer hunting with a 40g or heavier bullet. I understand that 40 is likely my ceiling here. Im fine with that. I am shooting factory loads. I have not begun to reload for this caliber yet. I will eventually but have a few issues to consider first. When I sighted this rifle with factory 40g v-max I was grouping just over 1" at 100 yards, nothing more than 5/8" from point of aim. I found that acceptable considering my abilities and purpose. After a couple misses while hunting I was prompted to go to the range. Now I am getting very large groups with the same ammo. (i was so frustrated i didnt measure but lets say 3+") Obviously not good.

While doing some research I ended up at berger bullets page. I fiddled with their twist calulator. I noticed something interesting. The berger 40g round flying at equal speeds to the hornady factory 40g v-max calculated marginal stability at summer temps (like when I sighted the rifle) and poor stability at the lower temps (hunting temps). This seems on par with what I am seeing from the factory v-max. I sighted the rifle in 75 degree weather. I hunt in low 30's - below 0. I know I should have checked this before hunting but... I am not that brilliant.

Based on what i have read I plugged some faster twist rates in the berger twist rate calculator. Obviously stability improved. I considered trying a different off the shelf rifle but everything I have looked at (Howa, Ruger, Savage) uses a 1 in 12 twist for their .204. It seems that a 1 in 12 twist is very common. I see lots of other folks shooting factory 40g v-max just fine from 1 in 12 twist barrels. Is there something I am missing? Is 40g too heavy for most 1 in 12 .204's? Will I likly solve the issue reloading different combinations for my current riffle or should I just start looking for a new one? I know that every rifle is different and every bullet is different so making a definite answer my not be possible. In hopes of saving some time and effort (maybe ever a few dollars) I hope you folks can start me down the correct path.

I struggled to write whats in my brain here. I hope it is all clear.

[Bodei]

I have a Howa 1500 in the Varmint contour with a B&C fiberglass stock. I shot Factory Fiocchi ammo 40 & 32 grain Vmax both shot well under 1/2" groups. My best handloads are with 8208xbr and 40 grainers. I would try the 32 grainers fist and see if they are any better. If you can't get better with different bullets you may try bedding the stock.

[RAMOS]

You seem to be experiencing what many, many guys do with the 40 grain V-Max and a 1:12 barrel. They just don't stabilize in the majority of the factory 204R's. The Berger 35 grain MHP is, IMHO, the way to go with the 204R in regards to anchoring coyotes. Excellent accuracy in most any rifle, assuming decent load development. Sort of a tough time to get into reloading but, it can be done. I would be looking for Alliant RL10X powder, Remington 7 1/2 or Federal 205M primers and preferably some brass other than Hornaday. You picked up a nice rifle, just gotta put it on a better diet.

[futuretrades]

I have to agree with the previous posters. Although I am not a coyote or fox hunter, a lot guys here are and are fur hunters. From what I hear from most of them the 35 Bergers are the ticket. I bought my Howa 1500 Varminter back in 2007. I guess I got lucky, because it came with a Hoage stock, and I never have had to do any work on the stock to get it to shoot. Shoots both 32 and 39's way under 1/2 MOA with my hand loads. As for the 40gr. Vmax, that is a different story, but I did come up with a load that will shoot half way decent.

You picked up a nice rifle, just gotta put it on a better diet

Very well put RAMOS

[TEXAS222]

itzdirty, these guy on this forum really know what they are talking about. Really great information. I'm just going to throw in my two cents worth. I had a 220 swift doing the same thing, shoot good in warm weather, not so good in cold. I put it in a H-S precision stock & problem solved. I'm thinking when it got cold the stock was shifting & putting pressure on the barrel. Hope you find a cure, for me the stock was it. JD Southeast Texas

[Tokimini]

Itz, a lot of 204s that have trouble stabilizing 40 grain bullets shoot the 39 grain Sierra BKs great. You might want to give those a try. Also making sure your barrel is free floating might help.

[Bill K]

I would voice the same, go with the 39 grain or the 35 grain berger. They just seem to work better than the 40's, for some reason in most the 204's. My Howa, like most shoots them very nicely. And also Welcome to the forum. Bill K

[11Savage204]

Just today I shot a couple groups of 40 vmax out of my Savage and the average was a little under an inch. My reloads with 35 bergers shot a little over 1/2 inch. It was in the high 20s.

What hunting regulations changed in NY this year that made the 204 more popular?

[itzdirty]

Thanks a bunch fellas! I bought this howa rifle because I have a.243 in the same model (and love it). I was prepared to ditch it but I really didn't want to. I really like the stock. I would rather not change it. I check the barrel with a dollar bill while I was at the range. It floats. I shot some factory 32 v-Vmax. It went okay. I'm not opposed to hand loading. I have the equipment and I load for other calibers. I just haven't stepped into loading the .204 yet. It's a summer project for me. All my spare time at the moment goes to making calls and hunting from fall till spring.

It appears I will have to step down to the 30+'s. Is what it is. How do the 35's hold in the wind? On occasion I will shoot out to 300. Not often will I shoot that far but once in awhile a critter will try to slip downwind at that range. Obviously I'm making a jump down from a 6mm so I am going to have to consider windage more but... Drastically more?

Thanks again for all your time fellas. You've been a great help.

[itzdirty]

Some areas in NY are limited to a shotgun during deer season. In those areas a centerfire rifle was prohibited in any open deer season. Last year they amended the hunting regulations to allow for centerfire under .22 cal in those areas during deer season. They should have allowed .22 cal and under but... We will take what we can get.

[Tokimini]

Itz, you might also want to give the Hornady 45 grain SP bullets a try if they come factory loaded. They are actually shorter than the Hornady 40 grain Vmax so they should stabilize in a 1-12 twist.

[Shady99]

I fiddled around with the berger online twist rate calc. and according to it the 35 grain bergers will only marginally stabilize in 1-12 twist.
I called berger tech support (the guys name is Phill) and he spoke to their ballistics specialist and said that the online twist calc. is for bullets that have
a long boattail. The 35 grain is a flat base and the 40 grain has a boat tail but only slightly; Phill said that slightly boattail or flatbase bullets need less twist to properly stabilize.
That being said, my tikka t3 lite with a 22.5 inch barrel shoots the 40 grain berger 0.6" at 200 yards; where the 40 grain hornady v-max was around an inch or more (3 shot groups).
the hornady 40 grain grouped nicely around 3/4 inch but at least 1 out of 4 bullets went off to the right or up and opened up the group.
40 gr. vmax is 0.745" long and the berger is 0.685" long. Thats why the berger should stabilize better but each gun is different.
My personal preference is the berger 40 grain with 25.7 gr. of H4895 , cci br4 or wsr primers, COAL 2.255. this load is certainly not max but nice and accurate and kills coyotes DEAD!

[itzdirty]

Thank you shady and everyone for the info. I will try some other loads when I can get some made up. I found some 32 nosler Varmegeddon factory loads at a local gun shop. Headed to the range before hunting tonight. They grouped much better than the 32 v max. I am a little concerned with this round penetrating and killing a coyote. But it's what I've got for the moment.