SmallCaliberCentral

Guy M wrote:Dang Rick - you've got a couple of beautiful varmint rifles there - and I was a little surprised at your 24" vs 26" chronograph results. Cool.

Guy: Thanks, but that's the same rifle, pictured both port and starboard. And those chrono results surprised me too. It just goes to show what Sagebrush mentioned....every rifle is a rule unto itself. Most of us know that, and this reaffirms the point. I just wanted the barrel shortened to my favorite length of 24", and the chrono results are like I said....icing on the cake. In this game we should take nothing for granted.

Glen: Right you are!

I was gonna ask how the group ended up but I just figured you would say "Who cares!! I got that furry little bugger!!"

I don't know if it's true or not, but I read an article several years ago and the author of it said the extra lenght (26" barrel) was not for velocity but to keep the bullet in the barrel longer to make it stabilize better than the shorter barrels. He also said that anything longer than 26" started working on the velocity which sounds right.

Has anyone else heard of this?

Remember this? http://www.bullberry.com/204Rugerdata.html

By the way Rick, that is a nice looking rifle you have there.

Man that's a nice set-up. Have a bad case of gun envy here.
Noticed a while ago it takes a 200 yard group to get the proper scope settings..least for me. Seems I am forever one click off. Yea, I know, that's probably what the kids think too. Wondered where the 100 yard rule of thumb for groups came from. That gun probably shoots near the same groups out to 300. Some of these gun makers gloat over .5" 3 shot groups. I think they need a nudge to show a 200 yard standard to separate the wheat from the chaff.

I have to get my son a Howa Axiom before I get MY Cooper. He's 8, what can I say. Those Predator Quest shows are influencing my gun budget! And seeing that Cooper....sweet.

Melvin Eades wrote:I don't know if it's true or not, but I read an article several years ago and the author of it said the extra lenght (26" barrel) was not for velocity but to keep the bullet in the barrel longer to make it stabilize better than the shorter barrels. He also said that anything longer than 26" started working on the velocity which sounds right.

By the way Rick, that is a nice looking rifle you have there.

Melvin: Thanks, I like her too!

As for that articles' author saying the extra length (26") was needed for proper stabilization, I say: "don't think so". Just consider most BR shooters use barrels of around 20" long, and those boys are after the last word in accuracy using thick, shorter (than we use) barrels. Also, some very accurate handguns have barrels much, much shorter, such as various Contenders and the like. I do know that studies on the .22LR have shown that any barrel length much over 18" actually starts to slow the bullet due to bore friction/drag, and that something around 16" is about optimum for that caliber. Dunno for sure, I didn't do the tests, but it seems right to me.

Snoplop: Thanks for the comment. I held off on getting a Cooper for some years, didn't think they were worth the price of admission....until I fondled a good friends 6mmBR and an identical 17 Mach IV, both M21 Varmint models. Once I saw how they shoot, well, it was game over for me, and I snagged the first nice used one I came across. Then when I couldn't find a used one in 204, I had to spring for a new MTV in that caliber. Now the "Cooper Curse" is fully infecting me.

If your son is 8 now and wants a nice Howa Axiom, just think what it will be like when he's around 16! By the way, I think all our kids think we're all a bit 'off center'....what do they know?

Maximum velocity relative to barrel length would be affected by the burn rate of the powder and the size of the load. Some powders will throw a big flame out the end of the barrel as the powder doesn't have time to fully burn or even come close.

Right you are, Ray. That reminds me of my early days of handloading when I used a too slow of a powder in a short barreled .243 Win, and during a late evening one summer when it was about dusk, fired off one of the loads and experienced the fireball out of the muzzle that must have been about 6' long according to a bystander friend. Wrong powder for the application, and I went home and did some more reading. That was late 1968, and I THINK I'm a bit smarter now...... (but still learning).

Seems to me... now I may be all washed up...but by the looks of that data the 21 inch barrel has the lowest fps spread. Thought the best length would be one most consistent. My rule of thumb leaned to 21 inch barrels for short case and 23 for long case length cartridges. Lot of other factors to consider but figuring the burn rate and all. Want the pressure to expand to it highest potential just prior to launching the projectile out of the flame hole before drag and other whimsical prejudices rear their ugly head. Not the do-all-end-all but in a perfect world.
Doesn't mean I would hack the 26" barrel of my beautiful custom 338-06..which I was badgered out of..groan. Heard later on the recipient chopped it to 20 for a brush gun. Insert louder groan here. And...I think I feel a tear welling up..

Alot of opinions and knowledge....but please remember this journey of cutting off the 26" barrel of my Cooper 204 to my favored varmint rifle barrel length of 24" was ONLY to gain the handling characteristics I prefer, and NOT any kind of ballistic experiment or statement. I just much prefer my varmint rifle barrels to be 24" period.

The fact that my velocity actually was improved just a bit was just a side benefit. I fully expected LESS velocity, and was mildly surprised by the velocity gain. The rifle now handles much better (to me) either in the hands or on the bench. It's a purely personal thing, and in no way am I advocating that everyone should trim their barrels to 24".

This is America, and we have choices!

Rick, I can't believe that you took a hacksaw to a Cooper! I demand that you send the new Cooper 20 Vartarg to me before you chop that one to pieces too! Gary

Captqc, you're a funny guy! Hacksaw indeed. The word "Cooper" and "hacksaw" should not appear in the same sentence!

I've gotta give the folks at Cooper Customer Service high marks; they did the barrel work on my M21 MTV 204R, made a Cerrosafe chamber cast for me, recrowned, test fired and returned it to me in under two weeks and only charged me return shipping. That's most excellent service in my book. Now besides having my favored barrel length, I've got an exact mirror image of the rifles chamber measurements.....nice.

The 'new' to me Cooper M38 20 VarTarg on the way from scootertrash (Mike) already wears a 24" barrel, so no danger of any steel being removed from that puppy.



I just returned from Wholesale Sports with another bag of 221FB brass, RL-7 powder, and more 32gr SBK's. You'll see the finished product next spring, and the terminal results splattered all over our favorite alfalfa patch in short order. I'm really looking forward to introducing Skippy and his pals to this one. Now for a suitable name........ I'm considering something like "Skippy-Scooter" for Mike's namesake legacy.

This is a funny question from my point of view.

I have a Custom 6.5-08 on a pre-war model 70 with a 6 groove Lilga barrel. The riflesmith wanted to know what I wanted for barrel length either 24 or 26 inches. I couldn't decide so I delayed the decision. Silly riflesmith decided it should be 25". Rifle is very accurate and I have killed a lot of prairie dogs with it.

For all practical purposes, therefore: 24", 25", or 26" it matters little.

Critter wrote:For all practical purposes, therefore: 24", 25", or 26" it matters little.

Exactly! Unless of course, you have a favored barrel length you just prefer for no other reason than you LIKE IT that way.

Not sure what barrel length you were using the day pictured below (24"?), but Skippy and his pals seemed to die rather well, whatever barrel length you were using on your rifle.



That was the day we spanked Skppy in grand style off the dirt mount the rancher had built while digging a new well in the rat patch. If I remember correctly, the mound was 426 yards from my bench, and many rats flew off that dirt pile in fashionable style.

View of the mound from the bench:



And as seen through the scope at 20X (Note Skippy standing up in the frame at 4:00):



THAT was a good day with ANY barrel length!

Yup! That mound measured 465 yards from my bench and it sure was fun giving Skippy heck that day! Gary

Well then Captqc, just think......ONLY six months until we get to do it all over again! This winter, when you're having coffee or a soda in the office or shop, think about having it at another Skippy Picnic:



Ever notice how even a lowly bag of chips seems to taste better out there?