head space

[harry]

I am in the process of rebarreling my 204 with a mcgowen barrel (i know a lot of you dont like them but i figered i give them a try)any how the gun smith wants to know how much head space. i would really like some advice on this issue . bullets that will be used are 32 to 40's possible 45's . Thanks for any info

[sharptailhunter]

I'll be watching this thread because I have some interest in rebarreling my .204 in the future. As such, I know I'm not qualified to answer on actual chamber headspace. But, for reloading, I do try to bump the shoulder back about 0.001-0.002". So, I was thinking of having the chamber headspace be set for something like that with for a full length-sized case. In other words, after full-length sizing a case, it would have .001-.002" of headspace. I don't know if that's the correct way of going about it or not? Of course, then you could maybe run into trouble if you tried using factory ammo or changed brands of full length dies?

[Trent]

Was he asking how much headspace, or was he asking how much throat? The .204R factory barrels generally have a very long throat. Sometimes so long that in some rifles a bullet would fall out of the case before it could be seated out far enough to touch the lands.

Headspace isn't generally something you want to changing much. I think on a super tuned BR action that has been trued/timed a quality gunsmith can adjust the headspace down to .002" or maybe .001"(scary). For a field gun though I think that .003" to .005" is an accepted standard. The bolt should close on a "Go Gauge" and not close on a "No-Go Gauge".

[sharptailhunter]

Was he asking how much headspace, or was he asking how much throat?... The bolt should close on a "Go Gauge" and not close on a "No-Go Gauge".

Yeah, I was wondering the same thing about the throat. In my stock Savage barrel, a Nosler BT will not sit in the case if I have it out touching the lands. Now big deal there though.

As for the Go and No Go gauges, I think Trent is right on there. I know for my Savage, they make barrel changes pretty easy. I would also agree that a headspace of more lime 0.003-0.005 would be better in a field gun.

Trent, or anybody else, do you know what the nominal difference is in length between the Go gauge and the No Go gauge? I've tried to look but haven't found anything real definitive.

[harry]

I am in the process of rebarreling my 204 with a mcgowen barrel (i know a lot of you dont like them but i figered i give them a try)any how the gun smith wants to know how much head space. i would really like some advice on this issue . bullets that will be used are 32 to 40's possible 45's . Thanks for any info

I have not spoken with the gun smith yet, i was talking with a lady at mcgowen checking on my barrel, she said that the gunsmith would call me 0n the 10 or 12 that he had a ? about the head space so i dont know if his ? is really about the throat or not but since you brought it up any advice on the throat. and it is being mounted to a savage action. THANKS FOR ANY INFO.

[harry]

I am in the process of rebarreling my 204 with a mcgowen barrel (i know a lot of you dont like them but i figered i give them a try)any how the gun smith wants to know how much head space. i would really like some advice on this issue . bullets that will be used are 32 to 40's possible 45's . Thanks for any info

Just a little more info! i will be reloading and i would like to touch the lands without the bullet falling out of the case. i will be useing hornady brass dont know witch manufacter of bullets that will be decided at the range. on what type of groups i can get. again thanks for any info.

[sharptailhunter]

Just a little more info! i will be reloading and i would like to touch the lands without the bullet falling out of the case. i will be useing hornady brass dont know witch manufacter of bullets that will be decided at the range. on what type of groups i can get. again thanks for any info.

A couple of points:
1. You could install the barrel yourself with the purchase of a set of Go No-Go gauges and a barrel nut wrench. Look on savageshooters.com for more info on that.
2. While some calibers do like to have the bullet touching the lands, the majority of people on this site say that their loads like a little free bore.
3. I would stay away from Hornady brass. There have been some recent posts about brass and most say Hornady brass is junk. I have some Remington brass that works very well, but it took some real prepping. I highly recommend Nosler brass. It's made by Norma and it comes sorted by weight and it is absolutely beautiful to load. All the prep work has been done already... It's great stuff.
4. My Savage seems to like the Sierra 39s but not the V-Max 40s. It shoots all the 32 gr bullets very well.

[harry]

thanks for the info I just order some nosler brass should be here by friday. I have a bunch of differnt bullets including the 39s sierras i am looking forward to loading some up, from all that i have read they seem to be most popular. i will have to see what will shoot from my new barrel.

[Wrangler John]

Pick up a set of headspace gauges, GO and NO GO from one of the manufacturers, I use Pacific Tool and Gauge purchased direct - do not mix brands of gauges, both the GO and NO GO have to be from the same manufacturer.

Do not use brass for setting headspace - it isn't exact enough or designed for the purpose. You will want the headspace set to SAAMI specifications, this is important if you are going to shoot factory ammo.

Be sure the chamber is spotlessly clean. After cleaning the receiver threads of all factory thread compound, place a THIN coat of never-seize or Tru-Kote Barrel Thread Protector (from Sinclair International) on all threads including the nut. The screw the receiver on to the barrel shank part way. Engage the recoil lug and close the bolt on the GO gauge, it should close with no resistence, if won't close STOP, back it off a few turns and close it again. Do not force it closed. If the bolt closes with no resistence, then SLOWLY screw the receiver on until it just stops - DON'T FORCE IT. AT some point you may have heard a click - that's the extractor engaging the rim of the gauge. Now hand tighten the barrel nut, open the bolt and re-chamber the gauge. It should just close on the gauge easily. Hold the receiver tightly by hand without turning it and remove the gauge, then use the nut wrench and tighten the nut without moving the receiver. I hold the receiver by hand so I can feel any movement. Then place a 1/2" drive torque wrench through the wrench hole closest to the barrel nut and set the nut to between 30 and 40 lbs. ft. of torque. Now re-chamber the GO gauge, the bolt should close. Remove the GO gauge and chamber the NO GO gauge, the bolt handle should start to close then stop. Remove the NO GO gauge - you are done. Here's what it looks like:



Rimless cartridge headspace gauges are made to establish headspace on a datum line that is a given shoulder diameter a certain distance from the case head. These gauges show the minute difference between GO and NO GO gauges. They are precision hardened steel, not soft flexible brass cases. Never drop them on a hard surface or force the bolt closed as they can mar the chamber. When not in use keep them in their plastic tubes.



Step one is to clean the chamber. Then coat all threads with a thin coat of anti-seize or barrel compound, in this view Tru-Kote Barrel Thread Protector is being applied.



The barrel is protected by tape, a nut wrench placed and the barrel nut screwed on all the way to the forward end of the barrel thread. The recoil lug is slipped on and the action screwed on until it is about 1/4" from the recoil lug - about the thickness of a recoil lug as shown here.



Next the GO headspace gauge is inserted in the chamber and the bolt gently closed - it should close with no effort.



Now tighten the action by hand slowly until the Go gauge just touches and the action will not turn further. Go gently here. With my big mitts I gotta be gentle. As the recoil lug approaches the receiver face be sure the lug key is inserted into the action key slot. Tighten the barrel nut by hand against the recoil lug and receiver face. Remove the Go gauge without disturbing the setting. If the action moves - check and adjust the headspace again.



A Torque wrench is inserted into the barrel nut wrench and while holding the action from turning (omitted here for clarity) set the nut to 30 - 40 lbs. ft.. If the action turns then you may have to start over, a nuisance but better safe than sorry.



Now check your work. Insert the NO GO gauge in the chamber and attempt to close the bolt. It shouldn't close any more than this - if it does remove the gauge, loosen the nut and readjust. Otherwise the headspace is set properly and safely. Enjoy your new rifle! This isn't any more difficult than setting valve lash on a old auto engine (well maybe the flathead Ford is worse), or gaping a set of points (what are points you ask?) if you can change a spark plug it's a cinch.

[sharptailhunter]

Awesome reply there WJ. This will prove to be helpful for me when I swap barrels.

[Rick in Oregon]

Wrangler: I'm not a Savage fan by any means as many know here, but THAT post my friend, is an excellent dissertation on proper use of the gauges and barrel changing. Well done sir!

(And by the references to setting points and valve adjusting, I know we're from the same era.......my wife refers to it as the "Late Jurrasic". )

[Wrangler John]

Wrangler: I'm not a Savage fan by any means as many know here, but THAT post my friend, is an excellent dissertation on proper use of the gauges and barrel changing. Well done sir!

(And by the references to setting points and valve adjusting, I know we're from the same era.......my wife refers to it as the "Late Jurrasic". )

Thanks Rick, I know I'm a dinosaur because I seem to be fossilizing as the bathroom mirror proves!

My next project is to adapt a new Remington 700 action to a Savage system using the Pac-Nor Rem nut - and other goodies. Some day all rifles will be made this way. I'm waiting for some manufacturer to offer rifles with choice of custom barrels from a selection of brand names. Just think, a person could order a new Remchester with choice of a Shilen, Pac-Nor, Hart, Krieger, Brux or other barrel for a premium, then swap them in and out. They could call it, "The most flexible rifle in the world." I'll keep breathing until then - at least until I turn to stone.

[sharptailhunter]

Hey, you guys are making me feel old cuz I know and understand well valve lashes, points, etc and I'm only 35 y.o. So, just think, maybe you're younger than you think.

Any who, WJ has a valid point, it'd be so nice if modern rifles were more flexible/interchangeable. Sort of like I'd love to have a Ford chassis with an Allison tranny mated to a Cummins engine.

In light of the original post, setting headspace is super easy on the Savages. For me, it's harder to decide which brand of barrel to put on my Savage.

[harry]

Thanks for the info on the gauges, I now can feel more confadent on installing barrels that was a great in depth on how to install the barrel. thats why i like this site there is so much info!!

[sand rat]

Nice post and pictures.

Now if the Savage action and the Criterion barrel I ordered in Jan. of this year ever come.

I can reference to this.

Thank you

Sand Rat