End of my rope

[Keith in Ga]

Maybe it just wants to shoot dirty! My Tikka varmint .223 doesn't shoot clean, but after 3-5 rounds, it really comes around. I just learned to live with it. Hopefully it's just something simple as that. Some of those groups really look nice. Keep us posted on your progress.

[SouthernCross]

UncleBob4,

I am very interested in your results and how you correct this problem as I am having the same difficulty with my Savage Model 12 BTCSS.

I sold my first .204, EXACTLY the same gun to my buddy who's ranch I regularly shoot on (he loved the rifle so I did him a favor and sold it to him and bought another. I knew he did not have the patience to "dial" in a new gun). My first gun is an absolute tack driver using 39g Sierra's, 27.5g H4895, 2.260 COAL. I could regularly reach out to 300+ yards and nail prairie rats. One day we set clay pigeons at 370 yards, with a 4-7mph cross wind, and we were hitting them 80% of the time. The gun is VERY consistent.

I have tried all kinds of loads in my new rifle and I get similar results as you. I have used 32g, 35g, 39g, 40g bullets, different longer COAL, and powder weights. This rifle, when it is shooting well, seems to like a hotter H4895 load 27.8g, 39g Sierra, chrono'ing at 3890fps. I have around 250 rounds through it. I will be shooting it again tomorrow.

I did notice on my first gun that it took around 200 rounds for it to "settle" down but nothing like this gun.

I am thinking of taking it to the local gunsmith to check out all the tolerances and barrel.

Anyway, I think if you find a solution so will I and visa versa.

I was going to post a couple of pics but for some reason I cannot insert them ?

[SouthernCross]

I wanted to add to my post from Friday as I shot my .204 yesterday.

I was happier with my results.

I shot 7/8" groups from 100 yards. Still not as tight as I like but no "flyers".

The one thing that I did prior to this shoot was examine my bullets carefully before loading them and checked the powder load on my scale before putting it in the brass. I was shooting 39g Sierra's, 27.8g H4895, Hornady Brass, Remington primers. I did not bring my Chrono so I don't know my velocities but I am guessing between 3850 and 3900 based on previous data with this load.

I have posted before about some Sierra's having deformities in the polymer tip. I noticed when loading for this shoot on Friday I had two bullets with small indentations in the copper jacket before I loaded them (I am going to inspect all my bullets, 300 of them, and send any that I find with problems to Sierra).

[Unclebob4]

Hi All, finally made it back to the range. I cleaned the gun to the max and coated the bore with the Lock Ease. The results were much better. I ran out of the 35 gr Bergers and used 39 gr SBK's that never shot quite as well as the Bergers but not bad. I didn' have the flyer's like I've had in the past and the gun is much easier to clean with less copper. I'll let you know how I make out after I get some more 35's and try again.
The CZ was shooting really well however.

[rfurman24]

I have two .204s that like 25.1 RE10x with 39gr SBK seated around 2.285-2.295. All of my rifles are very sensitive to seating depth. It is even worse with the .204s because of the ridiculously long throats. You really didn't discuss your load development but I am quite sure you have not found the load the rifle likes.

[Wrangler John]

[quote="Unclebob4"]Hi All, finally made it back to the range. I cleaned the gun to the max and coated the bore with the Lock Ease. The results were much better. I ran out of the 35 gr Bergers and used 39 gr SBK's that never shot quite as well as the Bergers but not bad. I didn' have the flyer's like I've had in the past and the gun is much easier to clean with less copper. I'll let you know how I make out after I get some more 35's and try again.
The CZ was shooting really well however.

This is a sign of a barrel "breaking-in," groups shrink as the throat and bore polish out. As you progress the barrel will continue to polish until fouling reaches a minimum over a given number of shots. Clean frequently to remove copper fouling, as it builds upon itself in layers of carbon and copper. When accuracy deteriorates then it's time to clean. Also use a carbon remover after the copper cleaner, I use Bore-Tech's products but any will work. Roughness in the throat will liberate copper from jackets as a plasma that then deposits in the bore where temperature and pressure reduction allows it to adhere, it's a bit like plasma spray welding. Even if the copper shows at the muzzle, it is most likely begin produced in the throat, although some factory bores are rough and can foul in their own right.

One other little detail that can affect groups and produce flyers is action screw tension. The accompanying photo demonstrates this. Groups were shot bottom to top row, left to right. Rifle is a Savage Dual Port Precision Target action, with a factory pillar bedded stock that I revamped and glass bedded. Barrel is a Pac-Nor 3 groove 1:8.5" twist. Numbers below each target represent action screw tension in in-lbs, front - middle - rear screw, as set with a precision torque gauge.



As can be seen, groups were dramatically effected by screw tension. I adjusted the scope after the first group, on the lower left target, movement of the groups fired thereafter was due to adjusting the screws. On rifles with only two mounting screws setting action tension can be even more important, especially where the stock bedding isn't perfect, or supported by a metallic chassis or pillars. It doesn't take much strain, less than 10 pounds to bend the average sporter action, if the stock doesn't support it properly and the screws are cranked down without a torque gauge.

[Unclebob4]

Thanks for the info Wrangler it looks like you hit the nail on the head. I've continued to aggressively clean the bore, mostly with JB products. Seems smoother and smoother to me with less copper fouling, and it is progressively shooting better. I'm going to retorque the action screws tonight an try again, but as you can see I'm not too disappointed in the most recent results. I always had better groups with the Bergers but the 39 SBK's did a good job yesterday. Hope to get the Bergers by Monday.
Thanks for all of the help and info, I feel much better about the gun now.

[SouthernCross]

Wrangler, great info! I just called Savage and they gave me the torque specs for the action screws on my rifle 30-35in/lbs. I will check these before my next shoot.

UncleBob, that is a pretty nice grouping with the 39g Sierra's.

Figured out how to post a pic. Here is the shooting bench I built from plans off the Internet (awesome bench and easy to build) and my newest rifle I am tweaking in: