SONIC CLEANER

[kenbrofox]

Is anyone using Hornadys Sonic Lock-N-Load cleaner? Sounds like a bargain at $99, if it works.Ken.

[Wrangler John]

I bought one thinking it would clean the case inside and out. Found that it works, but slowly with really gungy cases. The timer can be set for up to 480 seconds at a time, but can only be run for three consecutive 480 second cycles and then must be allowed to cool down for three minutes before continuing.

If the cases are coated with lube, after full length sizing for example, they take longer to clean. The spent primer should be removed according to Hornady to help clean the primer pocket, so the cases will have case lube on them unless neck sizing or using a deprime die. Primer pockets come out fairly clean, but still need scraping if you want to have them spotless. I run the primer pocket uniformer in to remove the carbon left behind, so the sonic cleaner isn't a savings in time or effort. The ultrasonic cleaning process doesn't seem to be able to deal effectively with case necks that have been sized without first polishing or otherwise removing carbon fouling that the die has burnished into the brass. Necks that I wiped clean with a patch dampened with Carbon Killer at the range as they came out of the chamber were completely clean and polished by the sonic cleaner. Neck exteriors that were fired in the field and put away dirty took four cycles or more in the sonic cleaner and still were not clean. The longer those dirty cases sat around before cleaning, the longer it seems they take to come clean.

Cases have to be rinsed after cleaning. Drying cases takes an extra step, I place them on a towel, then blast them out with compressed air, then toss them into the tumbler for a few minutes to finish the job of cleaning and drying.

Solution is mixed using 1/2 oz of Hornady's concentrate to 20 oz of distilled water. It's economical as far as solution is concerned. The ABS plastic basket has no handle or lifting tabs on it to facilitate removal from the solution, so you have to fumble around to get it out if you want to use it as a strainer in removing the brass, or put on some gloves and remove each case by hand. The basket must be used to use the sonic cleaner. Also, trying to pour the solution out of the unit is difficult, it will spill all over the place. If you want to pour it back into a bottle for reuse, you'll need a very large funnel, or something like a turkey baster or vacuum gun to remove it.

I don't really think this sonic cleaner is the ideal method to clean cases, as I still wind up cleaning primer pockets and having the extra steps of rinsing and drying cases and struggling with that basket and solution storage. Might as well just toss them into the tumbler and wait until they are polished. My guess is that cases with carbon residue inside are just as accurate as clean ones.

[kenbrofox]

John,
I was beginning to think my question had fallen on deaf hears. Thanks for the detailed opinion. I thought it sounded very good for the money, now i don't, so i will save my money. Cheers,Ken.

[Quoddy]

I bought a Gemora, the same item at $74.95 (shipping included) without the Hornady name. The unit, by far, cleans best when the water is very warm, or hot. I heat the distilled water in a glass kettle, add an ounce or so of the cleaner solution then let 'er rip. I usually do a hundred cases or so at a time and found that with the hot water it takes only a few cycles to get the cases really clean, inside and out. Even the primer pockets come out spotless. I wish that there was a timer over ride so that one long cleaning cycle could be set up. I do the cleaning while reloading, so I just keep resetting the cycle until it's done. After cleaning, rinse the cases, then do another cycle or two with clean distilled water. I've used several drying methods including drying the outsides and standing the cases in loading blocks. If I time it right with my wife's range usage, I can put the cases on a cooking tray in a warm oven (around 250) to dry.

[lanenebraska]

Hey guys, you'll want to have a good read on this article

http://www.6mmbr.com/ultrasonic.html

[kenbrofox]

lanenebraska,
Thats a very good article, thanks verymuch for the link.
Quoddy, thanks for your reply. Ken.

[Wrangler John]

I read that article on 6mmBR.com some time ago, not appreciating that the work involved in any sonic cleaning process may not produce a worthwhile result. It points out a few things that we should bear in mind - the important one being that solutions need to be chosen carefully. Some years ago (mid-1970's) I used a product that contained oxalic acid (if I recall), Case Brite, it left the cases dull and etched, and eventually embrittled the brass. Chemical bleaches and cleaners all have some effect on the metal surface and need to be carefully neutralized, this is true of bore solvents as it is of case cleaners. However, the chemical will still have some detrimental effect on cartridge brass while it is immersed, and the sonic process contributes to whatever change is occurring by agitation and micro-bubble bursts on the surface which performs the actual cleaning. Still, I am ever the curious type and wanted to try sonic cleaning. But is it worth it?

Do cases devoid of internal carbon film and primer residue produce more consistent accuracy? To what degree?

Is the internal carbon film a detriment or advantage? Does this film insulate, and to some degree protect, the brass surface from erosion of subsequent firings? Do clean or internally fouled cases last longer?

Is the cost in time and materials justified by the results? In the absence of quantifiable data demonstrating accuracy improvement or longer case life, is there sufficient justification for sonic cleaning over tumbling or no cleaning at all? (Determining the minuscule differential between sonically cleaned and uncleaned cases will require a controlled laboratory environment, with a shooting tunnel, test barrel, and professional measuring equipment. It will also require a large enough sample to eliminate chance. Just bellying up to the old shooting bench with a rifle will not suffice.)

My answer is no, it does not produce any result superior to vibratory tumbling. However, it's up to each individual to choose for himself. Now that I have the sonic cleaner and three quarts of concentrate, I will use it until the supplies run out. That sonic cleaner will also work on jewelry, gunky watch expansion bands, and small parts. Truth is, I was suckered again by the allure of a gadget, but at least I never bought the Sham-Wow or Slap Chop.

[Rick in Oregon]

Wranger......I've got a like-new "Vegi-Matic" in the garage you may be interested in.......

Seriously, I was tempted by the ultrasonic cleaners too, almost bit the bait, but settled on my vibratory tumbler for the exact reasons you state. It's worked for far too long to change to something that may or may not be better, and may or may not give unintended results that may not be pleasing.

[jo191145]

I agree wrangler. I bought a used commercial grade unit. Cleaned 500 used 204R cases and traded em for a chrono. After those 500 cases I haven't had the desire to go through the hassle again. I did 100 more cases for a 204R custom tube.
Just between you and me I don't clean brass at all anymore. Dirty/shiney it shoots the same eventually......... see below

Brass ultrasonically cleaned will shoot differently than dirty. Ultrasonic produces rough interior necks which changes neck tension/ seating force. Loads need to be tweaked to compensate. That simple change makes side by side comparisons pointless. As you said, a real comparison between the two would be very difficult to pull off fairly.

[greystone]

Hey guys, you'll want to have a good read on this article

http://www.6mmbr.com/ultrasonic.html

I bought the same system and used the same technique and found it to be a pain in the arse if you know what I mean and if the brass wasn't completely rinsed they would tarnish terribly. I thought clean brass inside and out would improve my accuracy because I was having trouble hitting anything. Tried this system-still can't hit anything! Pain in the arse! If you want nice looking brass the tumbler is the only way to go.

[BabaOriley]

Thank you guys for saving me from buying another gadget that isn't really going to be worth the time. I looked at that same model ultrasonic cleaner back before Hornady had their name on it. Back when it was $59 all over eBay. It was right about the time that article came out on 6mmbr.com. What stopped me from buying it a couple years ago was I always thought "I'd like to do more than 100 at a time.", so I started watching ebay etc for a larger commercial model. Within the last 2 months I remember scouring eBay to see what was available, and just didn't see any bargains worth jumping on. After reading your testimonials here, I think I'm fine with what my tumbler can do.

It is true. If you don't like what's involved in cleaning brass with the ultrasonic, you can still use it for some other pesky items that it might actually save you a lot of effort on, and clean safer than you scrubbing on something. Jewelry comes to mind first, but if you had one big enough, you could throw a whole revolver frame, or put many gun parts in there. I doubt anything beats learning how to take something apart and getting it back together again, but that sometimes costs us more than we planned.

One side note on cleaning:
I don't know where I heard of these, but I feel I owe it to you guys to make you aware. If you have a stainless item that gets carbon really burnt on bad, like the face of a revolver cylinder. The ADCO EZ Brite Cloth Lead and Carbon Wipe is a dream come true. Before learning of it, I just accepted that the cylinder face of a revolver had to have black rings left around the chambers, because no matter what I used, and as long as I scrubbed, I could find nothing to get the carbon stain off. The ADCO cloth feels kind of greasy to the touch. It will make any stainless steel surface look brand spankin new, with little to no effort. Carbon stains just wipe off. I think one of the reviewers on Midway even said they put a piece on a jag and run it down their barrel to get the last bit of carbon out. I haven't tried that, but man is it nice for cleaning anything stainless. I take care not to let the rag or my fingers with the chemical on blued sights, triggers, etc... It will take bluing off as fast as carbon.

What made me think of telling you guys about it here, was that while cleaning a revolver last week, I noticed a spent .204 case on the shelf. I figured I wanted to see how the ADCO cloth did on that. In about 5 seconds that case looked better than it ever did new, or than it ever came out of my tumbler. It shined like fine jewelry. I think the chemical in it must eat the brass a bit though, as the cloth turns black instantly from cleaning brass, much faster than cleaning carbon off stainless. I'll put a pic up of that case. I just checked it and it's still as shiny a week later as when I cleaned it. I wonder if putting some patches of this cloth would work really well in a tumbler? I thought the dust would just plug up the fibers, but ya never know.

1964 penny turned the cloth green, so it's definitely removing some material, but I wouldn't think enough it would shorten case life...

[kenbrofox]

And thanks from me too, for saving me from buying a 'magic' cleaner. Ken.

[acloco]

Nu Finish car wax added to medium corn cob media does rather well cleaning brass in the tumbler.