harvested hogs and deer with superb results. 204 ruger

[Bayou City Boy]

Jim:

I think your use of the words "other tools more suitable to the task" pretty well speaks for many folks on this topic. Which lead to the question of why use it if you have other better tools available..?

In the past, Grizzlies have been killed with 17 caliber rifles, but they're definitely not the best tool for the job. Especially when the bear is only 40 yards or so away. I've seen a grizzly standing on hind feet sniffing the air at that range. It calls for a bullet that will take out shoulders and disable the animal on the spot.

That's not typically what you get with a varmint type bullet on game bigger than a coyote. Part of the equation is the ability to kill quickly with minimal suffering to the animal. Sure a head shot animal will die quickly, but under most circumstances I'm not going to be shooting at the deer's head anyway...

Using small varmint bullets is just personal posturing and chest thumping with no regard other than for yourself..

JMO - BCB

[Bayou City Boy]

you guys crack me up. the same sarcasm and you continue to ignore the valid points of my argument. yes a 204 is perfectly adaquete for an elk if you plan on making only head or neck shots under 200yards or so. actually a 17hmr is perfectly adaquate if you plan on keeping your shots uner 150yrds and shoot for the brain. if that is whare you shoot your game and don't ever shoot at distances greater than that then a 17hmr is perfectly resonalble. it's all relative to your hunting style. biger calibers to a brain just make a biger hole in the brain. many ranchers used to harvest their pigs with 22lr to the skull. if you want to shoot 800yrds then a 30-06 or better yet 7mm minimum is a far more effective choice. you have no substaniate evidense to disprove what i have put forward.

You're obviously totally correct on this issue, redneck...

Now can we talk about something worth talking about..? Like a grammar and spell checker...?

-BCb

[chicoredneck]

again you ignore the numbers i have presented. many people harvest elk with 150gr 270 caliber projectiles. this is considered and accepted as the right tool for the job by reasonable people. this is less effective when compared to the weight of an elk than a 40gr 204 bullet is to a deer. yes i agree that fragile constucted varmint bullets do not penetrate well. if a bullet were constructed that penetrated better it would be a better choice for this caliber. Oh wait! they do. a 45gr sp from hornady which we used on hogs effectively with Full Penetration through the animal and quick incapacitation. I coose to hunt with my 204 over my 300 savage or 25-06 because: 1) it is more accurate 2) it has less kick and therefore more controllable 3) it is a semi auto making follow up shots on herds of feral pigs faster because we are trying to kill as many as possible 3) it shoots flater than my 223 and has proven to be MORE devestating in regards to tissue disruption than eigther my 223 or 25-06 or 300 savage. When hunting game i plan on eating i like to go for a neck/spine/shoulder blade shot to drop the animal on the spot. the 204 is perectly capable of this and yes even with frangible 32gr v-max will penetrate the shoulder blade on deer. when animals run or i want to see what a new caliber/bullet is capable of is the only time i shoot for the chest. This is the best tool for the job for my purpose.

[Glen]

again you ignore the numbers i have presented. many people harvest elk with 150gr 270 caliber projectiles. this is considered and accepted as the right tool for the job by reasonable people. this is less effective when compared to the weight of an elk than a 40gr 204 bullet is to a deer. yes i agree that fragile constucted varmint bullets do not penetrate well. if a bullet were constructed that penetrated better it would be a better choice for this caliber. Oh wait! they do. a 45gr sp from hornady which we used on hogs effectively with Full Penetration through the animal and quick incapacitation. I coose to hunt with my 204 over my 300 savage or 25-06 because: 1) it is more accurate 2) it has less kick and therefore more controllable 3) it is a semi auto making follow up shots on herds of feral pigs faster because we are trying to kill as many as possible 3) it shoots flater than my 223 and has proven to be MORE devestating in regards to tissue disruption than eigther my 223 or 25-06 or 300 savage. When hunting game i plan on eating i like to go for a neck/spine/shoulder blade shot to drop the animal on the spot. the 204 is perectly capable of this and yes even with frangible 32gr v-max will penetrate the shoulder blade on deer. when animals run or i want to see what a new caliber/bullet is capable of is the only time i shoot for the chest. This is the best tool for the job for my purpose.

I think everybody gets it. They choose to ignore because as I've said,, they don't want to participate in this anymore. They spoke their mind on the subject & moved on. It's time the rest of the players moved on as well.

Because it is turkey season most everywhere right now.

[Mike]

Because it is turkey season most everywhere right now.

Sure, Glen. Keep rubbing it in. Yesterday I watched 28 turkey parade around in the pasture behind my house three different times and there wasn't a thing that I could do about it. Our season doesn't open for two more weeks.

[Glen]

Then you don't want to see the pics I posted in the regular Forum here either huh?? There were 60+ in that group & our season doesn't start til April 19th. AND I have no permission to hunt anywhere within 15 miles of those birds.

[Mike]

I noticed those pictures the other day, Glen. Nice group of birds! Seems like I've seen more turkey over the last year than I have in years past. Does that hold true for you as well? How about anyone else?








Yes, I am attempting to steer this thread in a different direction...

[Glen]

In certain areas I will say yes Mike. In other areas that seem to be very good areas there just isn't any birds. I would say for the most part tho they are very strong around my 5 County area & thriving very well.

[Mike]

Glad to hear that, Glen. I have read that raccoons do a lot of damage to turkey populations because they get into the nests and clean them out. Since coon hides are essentially worthless, no one is really going after the raccoon populations anymore. Maybe that's an issue in some of the locations that you mention a lack of birds?

[Wrangler John]

Say, you know what? This reminds me of the discussion I read as a teenager in P.O. Ackley's book "Handbook for Shooters and Loaders" about using the .220 Swift and .17 caliber wildcats on big game. The Army experimented on dispatching old mules with the .220 Swift by shooting them in the head through the old pie-tin helmet. Used solid bronze bullets though, as a test of the small caliber's penetration ability. As for the .17's, Ackley and his fans believed in some mystical power of the .17 due to "shock". They killed wild burros in the desert (yeah-gave rise to Wild Horse Annie and her crusade most likely) sheep, deer, who knows what all.

Velocity is important where mass is low, a micro-meteor strike in orbit at 17k to 20k miles per hour would shred your sandwich.

The Correctional Center deputies I let hunt wild pig in my park killed the majority with .223 Remington's. Man, was that meat tasty when cured by a commercial smokehouse. Then there was the professional trapper that shot them in the traps with a .38 Special before he switched to a .22LR to keep the noise down. Fish in a barrel, but they were off to the rendering plant none the less.

I don't much cotton to shooting big game with anything less than a .243 Winchester, but the Barnes and other brands of monolithic copper bullets make it entirely possible, if not practical. But then I'm the guy that hunted ground squirrel with a .45-70 bolt action. When hit, it looked like they grabbed a bowling ball for a ride.

I won't be using the .204 Ruger for big game, or a pair of pliers to remove lug nuts, but it's still a free country for the next couple of years anyway. Enjoy your rifles.

[Glen]

That is a good point Mike. Especially where there are good roosting trees, nesting habitat, food & water. Otherwise I have no idea why the birds don't hang out in good looking areas.

[Sam in Perth]

You had it right last time this discussion went around, Wrangler John.

"Heck, I killed 'em with the bumper of a '62 Ford Country Sedan, but that don't make it a deer rifle."

Still chuckling...

[kenbrofox]

[quote="Sam in Perth"]