Remington VSSF II bad?

[Hawkeye Reloader]

Hi Guys,
I am new to this forum. I wanted to ask you'll a question. I picked up VSSF in .204 last fall and have decided to take it to a Remington repair center. I have had two previous VSSFs in 223. One shot lights out and the other held 5/8" groups at 100 consistently. After my purchase I put a Jewell trigger and Tubb firing pin and spring in the gun. The X-mark would not adjust below 5 lbs. at all. I had it topped with a very accurate Luepold VX3 25X LR scope. I tried all major brand 32 bullets and the 40 V-max. I have tried a couple BR primers. I have tried the following powders--H335, H322, W748, Benchrest, R15, Varget, IMR4064 and H4895. All of my 32 grainers average consistently 1.250" groups. The 40 grouped around 2.250" with multiple powders. I have not tried factory ammo and don't see the point. These were shot out of accurized Norma cases (we can argue the merits of doing such to a Norma case later). All of my good guns tend to shoot decent groups with most recipes, and one or two great groups with the best recipes. This gun isn't worth much if it won't 1/2 MOA. See anything I might have missed? I broke the gun in properly and am a freak about proper cleaning. The only two powders on my to do list are 10X and BL-C(2). I have Berger 35 grainers but I don't want a gun that's going to cost me a fortune on a prairie dog hunt and those bullets, which are often the most accurate, aren't highly frangible--at least not for my tastes (better for coyotes). Might try the 39 Sierra BK sooner or later but if it already won't shoot a 40 under 2", not sure why I should try those before shipping off to the repair center. Anybody had a gun this innacurate with all but one specific powder and/or bullet?
Thanks!
Hawkye Reloader

[jo191145]

Welcome to the forum Hawkeye

We once had a member hear went by Hawkeye Joe. Your gonna have to improve your groups to live up to his name.

Sounds like you've been doing your job well but the guns not complying. Sorry to hear that.
I too like the 35 Bergs but your correct. They wont splat for ya.
Surprisingly enough the 39BK does not act like the 40's out of most factory tubes. Many tubes that scatter the 40's will shoot the 39's just fine.
Unfourtunately I doubt your rifle will. At least not to your expectations. Something just does'nt seem right with your consistent averages.
It does occasionally happen that you get a stinker tube. I have, from Savage. Got a few that really shined too.


Theres a post on 6mmBR.com right now about "Blue printing and accuracy improvement, any truth" Long crazy post but at the end a fellow claims to do warranty repair work for Remington. Might want to PM him and see if you can send the rifle to him. If he's actually legit he made it sound like they'll bend over backwards to make your gun shoot and charge Remington.
Remingtons warranty through factory repair does'nt seem to have much favorable reviews lately. A subcontracter might be your best bet.

How much variation in COL's have you been trying? I'm a jumper but some folks like to hang em way out there.


Edited for proper thread name

[Hawkeye Reloader]

The 32s I loaded at COAL. The 40 I loaded at 1 bullet diameter in the case mouth.

[jo191145]

Well. maybe you could try hanging em out then. Your groups are'nt extremely horrible just overly large

[Rick in Oregon]

Hawkeye: In order to get my Sako M75 Varmint 204 to shoot bugholes using the Sierra 32BK and 39BK's, I have my bullets hanging in the cases by their fingernails, with only 110" of bullet remaining in the case. Jump to the lands in this factory barrel is still right at .090", but it shoots that way in the .2's.

My 11 twist M700 204 has a custom chamber, but it shoots in the .1's at the range and in the .2's in the field with my Nosler BT's being .008" from the lands, but remember, that's a custom chamber, but illustrates the difference seating depth can make.

I'd try hanging them out and reshoot your best loads. You may have to single load (two of my three 204's get single shot followers for colony rat shooting) as we do for best accuracy. You'll never know until you try. Good luck with the rifle.

[FireBallGuy]

Had the same problem in my VSF, seating bullets to "normal" dimensions and results were average but acceptable. Starting seating bullets to the length of the magazine in the VSF and THEN good things started happening! I have an AOL in my gun of 2.345" and that is the way she likes it! You may want to try the 40 grain bergers as well, mine remy LOVES them! Vmax's were the devil for my gun....little usable results with either weight. Factory ammo was almost a waste of time with only winchester supreme load doing ANYTHING good at all. Seat those bullets out, use RL-10X and grab soem bergers and I am sure you will be a happy camper!

[22 Mag]

Hawkeye Reloader
Have you looked at the crown on your rifle?? I had a Savage that had a "ding" in the crown and it would not shoot less than 2" at 100 yards. I cleaned the "ding" out of the crown area and the groups are now just over 3/4" and this was on a pencil barreled plastic stocked Savage.
22 Mag

[Hawkeye Reloader]

The gunsmiths at West Des Moines Scheels called. They took my gun to range, shot 32 grain factory V-maxs. Their best 3 5 shot groups averaged over 1". They said this was well within Remington standards (even for a $1250 premium varmint gun) and were shipping the gun back! As for shooting better groups they said I probably couldn't accurately shoot the Jewell trigger set at 1 lb. Blamed me and the trigger. Then they blamed the cartrigde. Said it unproven for accuracy and finicky and I didn't do enough load development. I guess Norma and Win cases, 2 different BR primers, 6 bullets and umpteen powders is NOT enough? They said the gun won't shoot 40 grain bullets without key-holing. Totally normal they said, I probably couldn't get the velocity high enough to stabilize the bullets. For $1250 I was sure hoping it would stabilze the two most popular weights of bullets! The best though was thier claim that my gun can only shoot 3 shot groups accurately, that the gun was over-heating by the 4th and 5th shot always causing fliers. They said to quit shooting more than 3 shots at a time, then completely let the gun cool down and then my gun would be more accurate! What do you think? I was seriously PO'd. Told them to send the gun back. Remi C/S thought this to be weird and sent me a free ship-to-Remi label when the gun comes back.

[jo191145]

There would have to be a whole lot of internal stress in a barrel to cause it to shoot erratic after just three shots.

I've fired up to 43 rds out of one of my Sav's without stopping. Stayed at .25moa at 200yds for all of them.
Not a feat I can reproduce but I have no fear of heat induced inaccuracy

I've had a Sav tube that was amazingly accurate for the first 3-4 shots. Then would go wild. After much expierimenting the best it could hold was 8 rds before going bonkers. It was'nt heat in my case.
The rifling was very shallow. Sort of like a micro groove barrel. Thats where I put the blame for its craziness.
Darn shame too. If I could have tamed that tube it would have run with just about any PPC out there.
After roughly 1000rds of trying it became obvious it was done.

Send it to Remmy- Good Luck

[Captqc]

Hawkeye, I'd say ship it to Remington and let them have a crack at it. Gary

[FireBallGuy]

Agreed! My SPS in 17 fireball out of the box would allow 20 accurate shots then it was DONE!! Barrel fouled horribly! I firmly believe it was lapped and returned to me and now the guns shoots great! Still fouls more than my VSF in 204 but it is very manageable now. Send it back and let the boys at remington take a crack at it. Odds are they will slap a new barrel on it and HOPE the new one is better. Good luck!

[wirelessguy2005]

I have had a bad experience with my model 700 sps varmint. I replaced the trigger with a timney, the stock with an Bell and Carlson aluminum bedding block stock, and it still only shoots so so. The barrel fouls horribly after only a few shots. I have cleaned it thoroughly with Montana Extreme, bore brushes and a few other cleaners and still the same fouling problem. When i contacted remington they pretty much blew me off and acted like it was no big deal. You can bet that i will never buy another Remington product. I will stick with my Savage's, CZ's, and Howa's. Just my 2 cents.

[Hawkeye Reloader]

I'll update after we see what Remington says. I do know that one c/s rep said it should shoot 1/2 moa with good handloads and another said 1"-1&1/2" was thier requirement regardless of model. This is basically how my Remingtons have shot
1st VSSF 223, 3/8 moa or better (1st varmint gun, traded after 4000 rounds to buy 2nd, still regret that!!)
2nd VSSF 223, 5/8" consistently (traded for a RRA, big mistake)
LVSF 22-250, 1/2 moa or better (learned to never sell guns, will always keep)
I guess those are all pretty good guns, maybe they set the bar pretty high in my eyes for what a premium Remington should do. But then I still sit and think about how bad this 204 shoots and I could have had a Cooper for another $250! It's just my opinion (and I own a 223 Cooper Phoenix) but the Cooper is easily worth the exta money if this gun can't shoot 1/2 moa ultimately. If I have to pull off the factory barrel and replace with a Shilen that will set me back about $700 and now I have a enough dough to buy an H-S precision that, like the Cooper, is guarenteed to shoot 1/2 moa.

[Keith in Ga]

Hawkeye Reloader, I went thru your same dilema, only in .223. I tried every load combination, powders, bullets, primers, etc, but never could get that gun to shoot. I called Remington, they said their factory standard was 1.45" @ 100 yds. I told them that this was their top of the line varmint rifle, not a skinny bbl mdl 7. No use! She said I could send it back to get checked, but it already met specs. Told her if that was the best they could do, I would get rid of it before the sun went down...........and I did! Traded it for a Tikka varmint in .223, great move on my part. The Tikka will shoot circles around the Remington, at about half the price. Since then, I've moved on to Coopers, another good move. Don't want any more Remingtons, at least for now. Still have that bad "lemon" taste in my mouth, and it's been over 6 years ago.

[Hawkeye Reloader]

I'm definitely going to send it in but that's my fear; they'll stamp it good enough. Can't help but think sooner or later they'll lose business on thier ultra premium varmint guns if 1&1/2" at 100 yards is the accuracy standard they set. If it comes back "as is" I will trade it for a Savage LRPV and that will be the last Remington I buy. Not because I don't like Remingtons or think they make a lot of bad guns; it's that my money is too hard earned to gamble on a gun that "might" satisfy me. I sure hope no one takes this as Remington bashing but their top end guns are getting very very expensive. There are too many guns that are guarenteed to shoot better for far less or guarenteed to shoot better for not much more money spent. The Cooper I recently purchased isn't much more expensive and comes with a heck-of-alot better trigger. BTW, the first few handloads with the Cooper are showing this is easliy going to be a 1/2 moa gun. Just my thoughts, thanks for all your input. I'm always interested in knowing what my peers are thinking...