More Bad News: Obama Ammo Ban Coming....

[LeeC]

What we have done in Illinois, through the Ill State Rifle Asso., to help stem the tide, is several times a "march" to the state capitol has been organized, even to the extent of the ISRA arrainging charter buses from various parts of the state. A pre-march meeting was held, then a march en-masse to the Capitol building. I mean a real march, curb to curb right down the street, with banners, flags etc. Upon reaching the Capitol, the members split up to visit their respective representative to voice their opinion on pending/current legislation. You could imaging the impression of a couple/several hundred marchers on the Capitol could make, and it did let legislatures know where their votes lie. This was done in a proper and respectful manner.

Another thing is that periodically a local representative in the Chicago area, for whatever reason, puts on a telephone poll on
pending local regulations. The numbers for the poll is put out by the ISRA, and respondents from all over the state (and other states) have flooded their polls. This seems to have worked, so far, to a great extent, and has helped to rein in some of the gun-hating liberal dems. Don't know if a march on Washington would get far, but a continuous "informational" on our legislatures might make them aware we're still here, and vote.

[rayfromtx]

What if they passed a law that said that every gun in America had to have a ballistics record on file in a national data base? Then, any gun used in a crime could have the bullet compared against a national database. I'm not sure how that would work with new barrels. I'm not sure what the costs would be. I'm sure the ex post facto clause in the constitution would make it meaningless, since criminals would simply use guns that were manufactured prior to the law or damage the rifling enough to change the ballistic signature.

OK so maybe this is a stupid idea, but is there anything we as gun owners could accept to help police to solve gun crimes or make it harder for criminals to get guns that would not infringe on our current freedom to enjoy what we do or our ability to protect ourselves from potential threats?

These darn gun grabbers have legitimate arguments that they use to convince mainstream America. Moms and Dads and law abiding citizens are afraid of guns because of all the harm they cause. If we ignore their concerns and insist on a "from my cold dead hands" philosophy, then we will continue to be portrayed as gun nuts. I'm afraid that public opinion is, in the end, more powerful than the constitution. It forms the basis of the makeup of the supreme court and major shifts have occurred in the past 200 years.

I tend to go with a more centrist argument that says that in the USA, when a subject of personal rights is debatable, we should always err on the side of too much freedom at the expense of public safety, rather than trying to legislate public safety at the expense of personal freedom.

That leads me to support less gun control than we have along with legalizing all drugs, allowing gay marriage, access to explosives and lasers and other dangerous components and legalized abortion. To me, it's better to allow Americans the right to make the wrong choice and suffer the consequences when they do.

I'm sure many will disagree with me, but try not to jump to conclusions about who I am outside of what I've written. My conservative friends think I'm a bleeding heart liberal and my liberal friends think I'm a conservative, gun nut. I really can't win a popularity contest.

[Wrangler John]

Merry Christmas everyone!

The idea that firearms can have a ballistic record filed away and used to search for a perpetrator is a fallacy. This scheme has been tried in Maryland, where every handgun sold had to have a fired cartridge case submitted to the state police data bank. My new Ruger SRH had a fired case in the box, inside an envelope marked with all the pertinent data. The dealer would have removed the case and submitted it at time of registration had I lived in Maryland. After millions spent and thousands of hours wasted with no results, the sate police asked for repeal of the law. These schemes do not work and will never work, due to the nature of firearms, rules of evidence and the intelligence of criminals.

The entire scheme requires that firearms used in crimes were purchased by the perpetrator thought lawful channels, carried the unique identifiers and the markings were readable by forensics examination. Rifling marks - requires actual firearm to be in possession of police to test for match, and positive evidence that firearm was used by specific suspect. No firearm linked to suspect - dead end. Only dummies shoot people with their own gun.

Micro stamping, has proven to be unreliable, with unreadable marks produced most of the time. No marks - dead end. Where markings are available - firearm will likely be stolen - dead end. Cases may have been policed up at the scene by the criminal - dead end. Revolvers don't leave cases behind - dead end. Criminal may police up cases and salt the scene with cases retrieved from firing range, especially where police have practiced. Cops chase innocent shooters or each other - dead end.

Bullet markings are unreliable, they have to survive firing, be found in the victim or embedded nearby, and traceable to the purchaser. The same rules apply - stolen ammo, or ammo pulled apart with the bullets modified or replaced, or completely handloaded bullets. Cast bullets can be made by anyone - even over a campfire. Criminal gangs will import ammo just as they do firearms. Investigators have to have a matching sample of the ammunition used and spectroscopically match the chemical composition of the bullet fragments to the bullet retrieved at the scene. This will tend to suggest the bullets have the same metallurgy, and which manufacturer or lot they came from, but may not be traceable to a particular individual. Criminal tosses the gun and ammo - dead end.

Any and all markings from bolt faces, firing pins and chambers are subject to abrasive removal - polish them away. A little rapid fire changes the barrel markings, as does lapping or fire lapping. Better still destroy the firearm and dispose of it - dead end.

The gun grabbers have no valid arguments, none that have ever worked, or will ever work, and only increase cost and decrease effectiveness of police. We are not responsible for the crime problem, nor is the freedom to own guns, just the reverse is true. Never compromise with a liberal or a socialist, they are wrong about everything, as is going to be proven in the next four years. Fight at every turn, shut them up with facts and figures, laugh at them, vote them out, and never give up.

[jo191145]

100% agreed Wrangler John.

I'll throw out this warning tho.
The antis do not care in the least if these schemes work. Thier main concern is to make firearm ownership exspensive difficult or better yet impossible. Solving crimes and punishing criminals has never been something that interests them.

[Captqc]

jo191145,
You are so right! The anti's don't give a crap about the criminals. But that is exactly where they should put their efforts because when guns are restricted from honest folks the crime rate goes up. We can only hope that if we can't stop them that the criminals will target them instead of us. Gary

[jo191145]

We can only hope that if we can't stop them that the criminals will target them instead of us. Gary

Actually THE CRIMINALS had better hope they target them. No matter what type of law is passed they cannot/willnot totally disarm everyone who abides by todays law. If the government wishes to make criminals out of previously law abiding gunowners so be it. I will consider them criminals in return. To be honest I'm not sure what that means to me yet. I'll cross that bridge when its built. Theres tons of old firearms in this country the feds could never trace or find. My hope is they consider this when making laws. Is it really in the countrys best interest to make criminals out of otherwise normal citizens. I think not. We seem to have plenty in this country already that cannot be controlled.

I live in the congested liberal east coast. Turn on the news at night and thats all you hear. Shootings, drivebys, stabbings, drug wars and and occasionally a home invasion. The great liberal inner city societys are war zones that occassionally spill out into the burbs.
Over the past twenty years its been REAL easy to watch the exspansion of these war zones. Whole towns surrounding these citys have turned from decent places to live and shop to places one needs to avoid.
These war zones are less than fifteen miles from my home. Tens of thousands live even closer than me without any major fear. Most of the perps have respect/fear for the folks living in the burbs. Even in a liberal society theres enough gunowners to keep them respectful (to a point most of the time).
They seem smart enough to realize no matter how bad they think they are theres a dangerous minority of gunowners camoflauged in the burbs. Best not to mess with them.
Still the expansion continues slowly street by street as good folks give up/move out and miscreants move in.

Through all this the anti's wish to control and disarm those of us living peacably near their self created war zones. This really galls me.

Sorry for the long post. I just had a long conversation with my yuppyish young nephew who tooled around the midwest in an SUV for a month. It brought to the forefront of my mind the differences in societys we live in. He is of the opinion that his somewhat crusty conservative uncle would just love it out there.
The day may come when I'll feel the need to pack up and head west. I'll be sure to cover the CT plates on my truck before I cross the Mississippi tho

For todays criminals I have this philosophy.
A gun by the front door and a pick and shovel by the back door. Hoodlums may come visiting and may pass through my home but they will not recieve a warm and fuzzy welcome. Warm maybe.

Hope you all had a great Christmas and have a great New Year.

[Glen]

If the antis are unwilling to talk compromise then the law abiding gun owners should return the favor. Otherwise it becomes us giving them everything they want in little bits. Which eventually ends in them having everything they want & us having nothing that we used to have.

There can be no compromise in any way on this issue. Unless they are giving in to us.

Any form of gun control,, ammo taxes, case markings, case stamping,, anything is totally unacceptable. Totally unacceptable in any way shape or form. This has to be fought clear down to the most minute points in order for the 2nd Amendment to remain.

There can be no surrender in any form regardless.

[Rick in Oregon]

I agree 100%. Well said Glen!

[Captqc]

Glen, you hit the nail on the head! We have to stand and fight every attack on our rights. Gary

[Glen]

Thank You for the support.

I also believe that being "Politically correct" is what has led us to where we are today.

Politically correct:
The act of being/doing/saying what the masses think you should be/doing/saying to please them rather than defending the most precious Freedoms of all. OUR Bill of Rights.

To be politically correct:
The act of Free, independent, & self sufficient people giving way to the masses that cannot or will not fend for themselves & need their government handouts or assistance in daily & personal matters.

These definitions were taken straight from MY dictionary.

[steve]

well said

[roscoe]

Thank You for the support.

I also believe that being "Politically correct" is what has led us to where we are today.

Politically correct:
The act of being/doing/saying what the masses think you should be/doing/saying to please them rather than defending the most precious Freedoms of all. OUR Bill of Rights.

To be politically correct:
The act of Free, independent, & self sufficient people giving way to the masses that cannot or will not fend for themselves & need their government handouts or assistance in daily & personal matters.

These definitions were taken straight from MY dictionary.

Your a well spoken man my Friend!Words of wisdom,well said.