To Flute? Or Not To Flute?

[Wiiings12]

Hey guys, I was wandering around the internet aimlessly (as usual) when I stumbled upon a gunsmithing site that does a TON of fluting work. Here is the link if anyone wants to check it out.

http://www.kampfeldcustom.com

Anywho, I figured since its the holidays I would have a few extra dollars to burn. I don't really need to worry about my barrel getting hot (most of the groundhogs decide to run after their neighbor is scalped by 40 grain) . I would like to shed some weight, but at the same time I don't want to lose accuracy. I appreciate all the help I can get!
Thanks
-Graham

P.S.-Sorry about all the questions.. let me know if I get annoying.

[Medic52]

I like the looks and have said to myself that I was going to get me a fluted barrel I just haven't found the right one yet

[Ray P]

Just a comment here! I order all my custom barrels fluted right from Hart barrels...........they do a great job, it aids in cooling and with this I hope I will get a long life of shooting with a good custom barrel. The only down fall is with re-chambering.........look change a little....the distance from breech to the start of the flutes.
Later and Merry Christmas
Ray P

[Frank]

Well, I would imagine it to be more of a personal choice; if one likes flutting or not / the looks of it etc.

I personally do not care for flutting, nor do I believe it aids in anything for accuracy or coolilng off & semi consider it just another marketing gimic. But that is just me, and of course I could easily be proven wrong, but just haven't seen it yet. What do most benchrest shooters use? That could possibly be telling in itself?

A lighter barrel always gets hotter quicker and cools off quicker. A heavy barrel is visa versa. So why (flute for function purposes)?

Again, probably mostly personal choice and whatever the individual likes. I like chevy you like ford. If you like it, go for it as this sport (like anything else) is whatever brings the person the most pleasure.

Good Luck in Your Decision
Frank

[Wiiings12]

I like chevy you like ford.

hehe, funny you should say that my last name is Ford! I read somewhere that the closer the outside of your barrel is to the rifling the faster it will cool off. the heat has less distance to travel to get to the cooler outside air. For the most part I just really like the way it looks, I just want to find out if my accuracy is going to be diminished.
Thanks!

[Frank]

Funny !

Yes, Graham, you are correct on the cooling off faster... And is what I was referring to above when I mentioned thin barrels heating up and "cooling" off quicker.

While thinner barrels can indeed be very accurate, they will not maintain their accuracy or point of impact during "extended" shooting periods as a heavier barrel will. However, how much extended shooting one does would be the question I guess. Also, the flutting needs to be extremely even / precise or the cooling off will be irratic across the barrel.

With that said, flutted barrels can indeed be extremely accurate as I have shot and seen others shoot them. Friends of mine own some so I would not be afraid of the accuracy part. Again, mostly just personal taste, all in what one likes.

Frank

[Rick in Oregon]

Fluting....now there's a very personal and subjective subject.

I've got about nine fluted barrels, and more that are not fluted. It does indeed add surface area to the outside of the barrel that in theory aids in more rapid cooling. However, I've never seen a study that documents how much it adds. It looks cool (again, subjective) but as Ray mentioned, if you ever want to set the barrel back a thread or two, can interfere with the asthetics and not line up properly once set back.

Some will also say it adds stress to the barrel because of the machining operation after gun drilling, rifling and chambering, so all mine have been both stress relieved and cryo treated after fluting. All my fluted barrels are on varmint or heavy sporter contour barrels, and all of these particular rifles are among my most accurate, but I'd never say that the fluting was the reason for the accuracy, as I never shot any of those rifles unfluted.

It usually adds about $125 to any given barrel for the machine work, so it's really up to you to flute or not. My most recent custom job, my "Silver Princess of Death", M700/Pac-Nor SS Super Match 11 twist almost got fluted, but in the end, unfluted.

As we all like pics, here's my custom M700/Holland 223 Ackley fluted (Black Death):



And SPOD (Silver Princess of Death) unfluted: (both shoot bugholes fluted or not)



The "death" moniker in both names are quite suited to the literal thousands of rodents that have been dispatched with these rifles in the field.

It really is like the Ford vs. Chevy thing, either way is right if you like it.

[Frank]

Yep, good points Rick, especially the stress relief part that I forgot about.

OH... btw on the bottom pic; is that an H-S Precision stock? I have one (desert camo) on my 223 Rem & was thinking about putting one (similar color as yours) on my 204 as I really like their stocks. Anyway, yours looks great no matter who it's made by.

Frank

[Wiiings12]

Ok, I am thinking I'll just take the "Not broken don't fix it" path here. I don't think it's very necessary for the shooting I do and don't want to risk anything.

While I have everyone's attention I have another question. My rifle shoots great, IMHO there isn't very much room for improvement. BUT! If I was looking to improve accuracy, would a glass bedding job really do anything for the little .204? I know that bedding is mainly used to keep things from jumping around in the stock and creating pressure points, but can the 204 throw its weight around enough to make a difference?

[Rick in Oregon]

Wiiings: Yep, the stock on SPOD is indeed a H-S Precison, came off a donor Remmy .223 VSSF. As for bedding, virtually any caliber rifle will be improved by bedding, even the stocks like the H-S that have the aluminum bedding block. I've proven this to myself, having shot some of them factory 'as-is', then after a proper bedding job shot them again with the same proven load, and the groups have always improved to some degree, mostly in uniform clusters with no fliers.

Darrell Holland, Master Riflesmith here in Oregon (also Holland's Shooting Supplies) is both one of my smiths, friend, and rat shooting buddies. He always told me to bed any stock on a rifle you expect accuracy from, even the bedding-block rifles. He showed me a job after bedding on one of these stocks, and there were obvious places where the aluminum block was NOT touching where it should have been prior to bedding, but after bedding made perfect contact. This is typical for two products made on different machines at differnt times in different factories that eventually come together when the rifle is assembled. Makes sense, no?

Think of it as creating a perfect alignment with the action and barrel chamber area. Proper bedding of the recoil lug cannot be understated either, and when done properly, creates a perfect bond between action, barrel and stock with no stress introduced to the action whatever that destroys accuracy. The recoil lug should ONLY make contact at the rear of the lug, NOT the bottom, sides, or front. Calibers like the 204 are no exception to this process. It's not really the "jumping around", but more of zero stress implied or transferred to the action. Again, total consistency is the name of the accuracy game.

For your first bedding project, I suggest having a good smith do it for you, then take it apart and inspect it, then when you attempt your first one, you'll have more or less a good example to work from. It's not really that hard, but you want to do it right the first time around. My personal choice has always been Accraglass Gel from Brownells, easy to work with, very complete easy to follow instructions, and it always seems to come out just right.

If your rifle shoots 'good' now, it will shoot excellent after a proper bedding job.

[Wiiings12]

Well, that answer surprised me a little bit! haha! You kinda lost me when you started talking about lugs.. I am pretty darn sure I can tackle the bedding myself, would you mind throwing down your method?

Thanks to everyone who has been helping me, I appreciate your advice and patience!
-Graham

[Rick in Oregon]

Honestly Wiiings, it's a bit much and too detailed for the forum. Best you pop over to 6mmBR website, as there are articles with detailed instructions there, and even if you only followed the instructions that come with Accraglass, you'll be able to get the job done. Cruise the net with Google, as there are other articles you can read first prior to starting a bedding project. My first bedding job was done from only reading about it in Rifle Magazine many years ago, and turned out perfectly.

The one thing to remember is "use enough release agent". More than needed is okay, less than required will ruin your entire day, week, and month.

[Wiiings12]

Ok so first I need to take off my trigger assembly and magazine-box-thing. Tape some of the action and stock off so no goo gets out of hand. Sand a little bit of my stock away as to let the acraglass goo grab onto it, then throw my stock in a vice, fill it with the goo, spray the release agent on my action and slap it all together. That's basically it right?

[Rick in Oregon]

Yes and no. Please do not start the project without doing some detailed reading on the subject. It's not just a 'grab and go' sort of a project, as there are different aspects to consider prior to starting.

One thing to keep in mind: If you just remove wood or stock material too hastily, when you plop the action down into the stock into the bedding compound, it will sink too low into the stock and screw up the entire job. Read first, then proceed.

Here's a brief overview to get you started:

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index ... 455AAVfsgd

Be warned though, don't proceed until you fully understand the 'how' and 'why' of bedding a rifle.

[Wiiings12]

I know pretty well what I'm doing as is, by the time the acraglass gel gets here I will be good to go. I know what your saying though, I have learned the hard way not to assume how things like this work a few times over. Thanks for all your help! I'll get pictures up when my new stock is glass bedded and on the gun!