My Factory/handload secrets of success
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My Factory/handload secrets of success
I'm not much for writing let alone write an article. Skipper says no Icon till it's written so here goes .
To make a long story short, I could sum it up in just a few simple words. "You and your rifle must become one". The end ... Well.... I guess I could break it down a bit. Knowing where peak accuracy is when shooting strings is key. As we all know ,carbon,copper,and HEAT are always lurking and show their ugly face after we put 3 in one hole. The only way I know of to gain this knowledge is to shoot, then shoot some more. 99% of all rounds shot out of my rifles is unfortunately at paper. Practice makes perfect. Even with the best ammo, knowing your rifle is key.
As for reloading. I prefer to let my cases grow. All of my Norma match brass is 1.859-1.860 long. DO NOT LET YOUR BRASS GROW THIS LONG UNLESS YOU MEASURE YOUR CHAMBER. THEY'RE ALL DIFFERENT!!! I do NOT neck turn. When the walls become uneven (.0005 or more), the brass gets handed down to my hunting rifle. I neck size with a Redding comp bushing die, Then bump the shoulders back with a Forster "BUMP" die WITHOUT bushing. This only bumps the shoulders back, No other work is done with the bump die. I seat bullets with a Redding comp seater. One thing "ALL" my threaded dies sport is a Hornady lock ring. They are the best on the market after a little deburring. Where Hornady splits the ring vertically the threads have little burrs. A Dremel tool with a #409 cut-off wheel will allow you to deburr the threads from the crest to the root. After the 30 second deburring job they will seat your dies perfectly square in your press. The rings have one side that looks ground flat so make sure that face seats on your press. Like I said, NO other ring come close to the squareness of the Hornady. Roll the die in a V-block with indicator attached and you'll be a believer too. One other thing that a lot of people over look is proper case mouth deburring. YOU MUST SPIN THE CASE!! NOT THE TOOL, If you want a even chamfer!!!! The VLD inside chamfer tools are by far the best. Look inside your die and on your press, If you see copper shavings your guilty. Runout suffers big time because of this. Being a Machinist for 25 years also helps my reloading skills. Everything else I do is just the standard stuff. Primer pocket uniforming,flash hole deburring and weight sorting. I also weight sort my bullets. I picked up one of them fancy Accu-lab scales to be sure all my powder charges are within one kernel. I've had my share of presses and none work as well as my 40 year old RCBS JR3. It's a hand-me-down from my dad.
On the bench I'm pretty fussy. The targets and bench MUST be level for starters.Our benches are on fine crushed stone so leveling is easy .Does anybody else level their targets??? For a front rest I use a Rock BR and a Deluxe two stitch mid-ear Protektor rear bag. When shooting I prefer a hard hold. One hand on the trigger and the other on the forend. Yes.. Two hands on the rifle!! Wind is another thing I never have to deal with. Our range is protected on all sides by tall trees and thick shrubs. The only break in the trees is between the 210-250 yard mark.
The gun that loves me so is a 100% stock Savage LRPV. A Leupold Competition 35x45 sits on top with a set of Tactical Precision rings. The only modification I did to it is a little sanding on the stock where it slides in the bags. That's it!! The factory finish was too rough for a nice easy slide. It kinda chattered before I smoothed it out. Some 600 grit emery solved that problem. It now glides back smoothly. I've been afraid to take the stock off for over a year now. Go figure..
The load I use is still the one I stole from Skipper. 26.6grains of Benchmark with weight sorted 35 grain Bergers and CCI BR4 primers. Still NO CCI BR4 primers to be had in this neck of the woods . My 300 pieces LRPV Norma brass is sitting empty waiting for some BR4'S. That's ok because I'm done punching paper for this year. I use the same load for my Predator rifle with second hand WW brass left over from my VLP. That brass is trimed to 1.850. Look at the calipers in the picture and notice how close the comparator is to the case. And yes, that case has a bullet in it. When I load for the LRPV 99.9% of the bearing surface is in the case . I have a home made comparator bushing to measure the LRPV rounds. Most of the time the 20 cal bushing rests on the brass.
Here a few pictures where the magic happens
To make a long story short, I could sum it up in just a few simple words. "You and your rifle must become one". The end ... Well.... I guess I could break it down a bit. Knowing where peak accuracy is when shooting strings is key. As we all know ,carbon,copper,and HEAT are always lurking and show their ugly face after we put 3 in one hole. The only way I know of to gain this knowledge is to shoot, then shoot some more. 99% of all rounds shot out of my rifles is unfortunately at paper. Practice makes perfect. Even with the best ammo, knowing your rifle is key.
As for reloading. I prefer to let my cases grow. All of my Norma match brass is 1.859-1.860 long. DO NOT LET YOUR BRASS GROW THIS LONG UNLESS YOU MEASURE YOUR CHAMBER. THEY'RE ALL DIFFERENT!!! I do NOT neck turn. When the walls become uneven (.0005 or more), the brass gets handed down to my hunting rifle. I neck size with a Redding comp bushing die, Then bump the shoulders back with a Forster "BUMP" die WITHOUT bushing. This only bumps the shoulders back, No other work is done with the bump die. I seat bullets with a Redding comp seater. One thing "ALL" my threaded dies sport is a Hornady lock ring. They are the best on the market after a little deburring. Where Hornady splits the ring vertically the threads have little burrs. A Dremel tool with a #409 cut-off wheel will allow you to deburr the threads from the crest to the root. After the 30 second deburring job they will seat your dies perfectly square in your press. The rings have one side that looks ground flat so make sure that face seats on your press. Like I said, NO other ring come close to the squareness of the Hornady. Roll the die in a V-block with indicator attached and you'll be a believer too. One other thing that a lot of people over look is proper case mouth deburring. YOU MUST SPIN THE CASE!! NOT THE TOOL, If you want a even chamfer!!!! The VLD inside chamfer tools are by far the best. Look inside your die and on your press, If you see copper shavings your guilty. Runout suffers big time because of this. Being a Machinist for 25 years also helps my reloading skills. Everything else I do is just the standard stuff. Primer pocket uniforming,flash hole deburring and weight sorting. I also weight sort my bullets. I picked up one of them fancy Accu-lab scales to be sure all my powder charges are within one kernel. I've had my share of presses and none work as well as my 40 year old RCBS JR3. It's a hand-me-down from my dad.
On the bench I'm pretty fussy. The targets and bench MUST be level for starters.Our benches are on fine crushed stone so leveling is easy .Does anybody else level their targets??? For a front rest I use a Rock BR and a Deluxe two stitch mid-ear Protektor rear bag. When shooting I prefer a hard hold. One hand on the trigger and the other on the forend. Yes.. Two hands on the rifle!! Wind is another thing I never have to deal with. Our range is protected on all sides by tall trees and thick shrubs. The only break in the trees is between the 210-250 yard mark.
The gun that loves me so is a 100% stock Savage LRPV. A Leupold Competition 35x45 sits on top with a set of Tactical Precision rings. The only modification I did to it is a little sanding on the stock where it slides in the bags. That's it!! The factory finish was too rough for a nice easy slide. It kinda chattered before I smoothed it out. Some 600 grit emery solved that problem. It now glides back smoothly. I've been afraid to take the stock off for over a year now. Go figure..
The load I use is still the one I stole from Skipper. 26.6grains of Benchmark with weight sorted 35 grain Bergers and CCI BR4 primers. Still NO CCI BR4 primers to be had in this neck of the woods . My 300 pieces LRPV Norma brass is sitting empty waiting for some BR4'S. That's ok because I'm done punching paper for this year. I use the same load for my Predator rifle with second hand WW brass left over from my VLP. That brass is trimed to 1.850. Look at the calipers in the picture and notice how close the comparator is to the case. And yes, that case has a bullet in it. When I load for the LRPV 99.9% of the bearing surface is in the case . I have a home made comparator bushing to measure the LRPV rounds. Most of the time the 20 cal bushing rests on the brass.
Here a few pictures where the magic happens
Last edited by Hawkeye Joe on Mon Oct 13, 2008 6:33 pm, edited 6 times in total.
Hawkeye Joe (Mike)
Savage model 10 Predator, 3-9 Nikon Omega
07 LRPV, 35X45 Leupold Competition
Savage model 10 Predator, 3-9 Nikon Omega
07 LRPV, 35X45 Leupold Competition
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Re: My Factory/handload secrets of success
Hawkeye, well we have one huge thing in common. I'm also using a RCBS JR. press, purchased in 1970!!!!
I'm also a CAD designer for toolmakers.
Great shooting my friend.
Mike
I'm also a CAD designer for toolmakers.
Great shooting my friend.
Mike
Factory Custom
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- .204 Ruger Guns: Savage mod. 116 and Custom .204 AR
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Re: My Factory/handload secrets of success
Mike, That is one beautiful range set up...as well as the loading area...
To have that kind of surroundings, I think I would be putting a small cabin next to the shooting cover and just living there...
To have that kind of surroundings, I think I would be putting a small cabin next to the shooting cover and just living there...
AR
Factory/Factory
Factory/Factory
- Ray P
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- Contact:
Re: My Factory/handload secrets of success
Hawkeye Joe..........."Top Dog" Way to go! Congrads! Nice write up.
My smith has done a lot of reloading from a rcbs..jr. My dad started me out with rcbs rockchucker back in the late 1970's........did pistol ammo up to my benchrest rifles.
Thanks again for sharing.
Later
Ray P
My smith has done a lot of reloading from a rcbs..jr. My dad started me out with rcbs rockchucker back in the late 1970's........did pistol ammo up to my benchrest rifles.
Thanks again for sharing.
Later
Ray P
Life is an adventure and often to short. Make the most with family and friends. Shoot often and shoot a small hole. Love the 204 Ruger!! NRA Life Member
"We are never to old to learn"
"We are never to old to learn"
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Re: My Factory/handload secrets of success
I'm growing out of my reloading/hobby room FAST. I have a 3 bay cleaning table in the center and a small path to get out.
Did ya notice the wind protection at my range . It's a great club to belong to. And it's only $75 a year. That's the 100,200 and 300 all shot from the same line. Lots of fun matches going on also. No benchrest though . It might take me to start one up.
Did ya notice the wind protection at my range . It's a great club to belong to. And it's only $75 a year. That's the 100,200 and 300 all shot from the same line. Lots of fun matches going on also. No benchrest though . It might take me to start one up.
Hawkeye Joe (Mike)
Savage model 10 Predator, 3-9 Nikon Omega
07 LRPV, 35X45 Leupold Competition
Savage model 10 Predator, 3-9 Nikon Omega
07 LRPV, 35X45 Leupold Competition
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- .204 Ruger Guns: Savage 12LRPV & 12FVS
- Location: Central Iowa
Re: My Factory/handload secrets of success
Hawkeye, that's one great looking range you have there. Your right, maybe you should start a benchrest comp at your club. Don't let them see your practice targets or nobody will show up Great shooting and congrats on being top dog again. Maybe n/year someone will get you. We're all gunin' for you again. Hey didn't I say that last year too
Savage 12LRPV W/Sightron 36x scope
Savage 12FV W/Weaver T-36 scope
Savage 12FV W/Weaver T-36 scope
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- .204 Ruger Guns: Savage mod. 116 and Custom .204 AR
- Location: East Central MO
Re: My Factory/handload secrets of success
$75 per year for 100-300yd ranges with cover is a good deal...
I just joined the Bench Rest Club of St Louis
http://www.shootingstl.com/home.htm
and it's $200 per, but an extremely nice range with 60 covered benches from 100,200,300 & 600 yd ranges, plus a large pistol, shotgun areas and another 100,200,300yd, 40 bench area, for overflow when they have the big matches....Plus a large heated/AC club house with kitchen, TV, etc..
And it's only 13 miles from home....
I'm looking forward to getting into some precision shooting, just not sure I can afford the needed upgrades..
I just joined the Bench Rest Club of St Louis
http://www.shootingstl.com/home.htm
and it's $200 per, but an extremely nice range with 60 covered benches from 100,200,300 & 600 yd ranges, plus a large pistol, shotgun areas and another 100,200,300yd, 40 bench area, for overflow when they have the big matches....Plus a large heated/AC club house with kitchen, TV, etc..
And it's only 13 miles from home....
I'm looking forward to getting into some precision shooting, just not sure I can afford the needed upgrades..
AR
Factory/Factory
Factory/Factory
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Re: My Factory/handload secrets of success
nice write up mike and congrats on top dog
this year i am going to to play with seating depth more and keep notes
robert
this year i am going to to play with seating depth more and keep notes
robert
If not for my forgetful nature remembering things would be no problem at all.
- Keith in Ga
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Re: My Factory/handload secrets of success
Very nice article and pics. I can see I'm not shooting enough benchrest type groups. My technique at the bench is definately lacking. I also see several reloading tips that I need to try. Thanks a lot for the info, keep it coming.
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Re: My Factory/handload secrets of success
Robert
Notes are good,but nothing beats notes on the actual target. I save all my targets. Just a thought.
OldTurtle
That's just the rifle range. We have trap, indor and outdoor pistol, combat and plinking ranges. A nice archery range with 20 foot tower. Two nice lakes with good Pike,Bass, and Turtle fishing. I found a baby Snapper the size of a silver dollar on the rifle range a few weeks back. They lay their eggs in the dirt just in front of the benches. All this is only 11 miles from my houes.
Notes are good,but nothing beats notes on the actual target. I save all my targets. Just a thought.
OldTurtle
That's just the rifle range. We have trap, indor and outdoor pistol, combat and plinking ranges. A nice archery range with 20 foot tower. Two nice lakes with good Pike,Bass, and Turtle fishing. I found a baby Snapper the size of a silver dollar on the rifle range a few weeks back. They lay their eggs in the dirt just in front of the benches. All this is only 11 miles from my houes.
Hawkeye Joe (Mike)
Savage model 10 Predator, 3-9 Nikon Omega
07 LRPV, 35X45 Leupold Competition
Savage model 10 Predator, 3-9 Nikon Omega
07 LRPV, 35X45 Leupold Competition
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- .204 Ruger Guns: ruger 77 m ll,cooper mod21, rem 700,savage12 fvb,savage lrpv
- Location: western OK.
- Contact:
Re: My Factory/handload secrets of success
Hawkeye i save most all my targets but i am lazy on taking notes and think loading for several rifles I think I am getting lengths swapped around some how
robert
robert
If not for my forgetful nature remembering things would be no problem at all.
- Keith in Ga
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Re: My Factory/handload secrets of success
Hawkeye, one additional question on your tips. You said you "spin the case" when deburring cases, and not the tool. Tell us exactly how you do this, and what tools you use. I've also got to get a new VLD tool to use. Appreciate all your help.
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Re: My Factory/handload secrets of success
Keith
I use a lee Zip-Trim to spin the cases. I think I paid $20 for it a few years back. They also sell a 3 jaw chuck for it. I use a case holder. Pull the string and it spins the case. After I chamfer in and out, I do a final deburr with a "worn out" piece of ultra fine Scotch bright. The concept of spinning the case instead of the tool is hard to explain. If you look at the case I have the chamfer tool in, You can see if I turn the TOOL in the position it's in, I'll have a 45 degree chamfer on the bottom and almost nothing on top. Now If I spin the CASE, I'll have a 45 degree all the way around the whole case. I think that explains it. Feel free to ask more questions.
I use a lee Zip-Trim to spin the cases. I think I paid $20 for it a few years back. They also sell a 3 jaw chuck for it. I use a case holder. Pull the string and it spins the case. After I chamfer in and out, I do a final deburr with a "worn out" piece of ultra fine Scotch bright. The concept of spinning the case instead of the tool is hard to explain. If you look at the case I have the chamfer tool in, You can see if I turn the TOOL in the position it's in, I'll have a 45 degree chamfer on the bottom and almost nothing on top. Now If I spin the CASE, I'll have a 45 degree all the way around the whole case. I think that explains it. Feel free to ask more questions.
Hawkeye Joe (Mike)
Savage model 10 Predator, 3-9 Nikon Omega
07 LRPV, 35X45 Leupold Competition
Savage model 10 Predator, 3-9 Nikon Omega
07 LRPV, 35X45 Leupold Competition
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Re: My Factory/handload secrets of success
Put most of your info on the targets BERORE you head to the range.Robert harrel wrote:Hawkeye i save most all my targets but i am lazy on taking notes and think loading for several rifles I think I am getting lengths swapped around some how
robert
Hawkeye Joe (Mike)
Savage model 10 Predator, 3-9 Nikon Omega
07 LRPV, 35X45 Leupold Competition
Savage model 10 Predator, 3-9 Nikon Omega
07 LRPV, 35X45 Leupold Competition
Re: My Factory/handload secrets of success
Hawkeye,
When you bump the shoulders back with the Forester die is this after you neck size and do you lubricate shoulders for this operation? Also looking at picture with loaded bullet in comparator was wondering what your OAL is and how far you are seated from the lands? Do you use same seating depth for both of your .204's?
Thanks, IKE
When you bump the shoulders back with the Forester die is this after you neck size and do you lubricate shoulders for this operation? Also looking at picture with loaded bullet in comparator was wondering what your OAL is and how far you are seated from the lands? Do you use same seating depth for both of your .204's?
Thanks, IKE