204 barrel life?

[furhntr]

I own a rem sps 204 and was wondering how many rounds you guys are getting before the throat starts to wear out. I'm not talking sitting in a pdog town all day just shooting and not getting the barrel hot.
Thanks.

[glenn asher]

Over a year ago, Silverfox had 1800+ round thru his rifle, without noticeable accuracy drop-off, he treats his rifles nicely, though You should, if you're just shooting the odd crow, groundhog and coyote, be able to do that, or considerably more, probably double that, is my guess. They aren't terribly hard on barrels, but clean them regularly, don't get them too hot, and they should last a very long time, in rifle terms.

[scootertrash]

All my notes are out in the shop, but I'll try to recall them as best I can. My Savage 12 VLP has around 2400 rounds thru it, and I believe the last time I checked, I had lost .020+ of throat or thereabouts.

The rifle still shoots alright, but at the 1600 round mark, it started to copper foul quickly. I believe the roughness of the throat is stripping the bullet and depositing it on down the barrel.

The rifle sees almost exclusively pdog duty, and I'm going to try and get thru this summer with it. Then it will be rebarreled.

Mike

[Silverfox]

I'm only up to 2,070 rounds down the tube as of today, January 14, 2008. Ooops, make that 2,072--I forgot the two coyotes I shot with the 39 gr. Sierras on December 26, 2007!! I did use the .204 Ruger a wee bit on prairie dogs last summer, but used my Pac-Nor barreled .17 Remington as my main PD rifle.

I haven't measured throat erosion lately, but the accuracy sure hasn't disappeared, so I'm happy with the .204 Ruger. The first year I had the rifle I was shooting some might hot 32 gr. V-Max loads--4,255 fps!!! I tamed my prairie dog loads down a wee bit after that, but kept my coyote load way up high for speed. I don't shoot more than a couple dozen coyotes each season, and certainly don't shoot more than one or two shots at a time. Not like prairie dog shooting

I'll have to check the throat erosion situation with my Stoney Point gauge and comparator. I have checked the throat with my bore scope and it sure doesn't look bad to me.

[Edited to correct the total number of shots.]

[hagfan72]

yeah, would you keep us informed on that please? There are a lot of guys on other sites shooting from the hip about the .204 being a barrel burner. I would LOVE to hush them all up! LOL

[crazy2medic]

the .204 is not suppose to be any more of a barrel burner than a .223, even though it generates a hellacious velocity, it does it with a moderate use of powder, I've read that hornady and ruger both say that this cartridge is not a barrel burner! unlike the swift and the 22-250 which use a large amount of powder(heat) to get near the same velocity!

[Bayou City Boy]

the .204 is not suppose to be any more of a barrel burner than a .223, even though it generates a hellacious velocity, it does it with a moderate use of powder, I've read that hornady and ruger both say that this cartridge is not a barrel burner! unlike the swift and the 22-250 which use a large amount of powder(heat) to get near the same velocity!

Ahhhhhhhh....the bliss of young love....

Barrel life is like guessing how many fairies you can place on the head of a pin. Any time you are using a cartridge which is slightly over bore (read 204 Ruger, 220 Swift, 22-250 Rem), you are going to have barrel life as a concern. On the other hand, the number of folks who actually will shoot their rifles enough to truly wear out a barrel is not very large...

Other factors such as quality of the barrel steel, how the barrel is used (shot hot a bunch, etc.,), and a host of other variables will determine barrel life. Since accuracy is the primary determining factor in barrel life, even what "accuracy" means from one person to another is a variable.

For contrast, I have shot out a 223 Rem barrel in a bolt action rifle in a single PD trip by using it too hard. I'm guessing that other unseen variables beyond my level of concern helped as I was surprised the accuracy went so quickly. And yes, it was supposedly a good quality custom barrel.

On the other hand, I used a factory barreled Rem 788 in 222-50 for almost 8 seasons of coyote and PD shooting and the rifle would still kill PD's at extended ranges after well over 5K hots down the tube. (I was surprised at that result also, and if I had been young and foolish, I probably would have told the world that a 22-250 does not "burn up" factory barrels. By experience I know this one barrel was a fluke.)

The best way to determine when a barrel is toast is not always determined by measuring throat erosion, etc. Some cartridges - like the 204 Ruger - like long bullet jumps. And generally when noticeable throat erosion is found, its actually the condition of the barrel beyond the throat that affects accuracy. If throat erosion occurs in a consistent manner on all lands and grooves, the barrel may continue to shoot well far beyond even what Roy Weatherby thought it should. For those who are young, Roy Weatherby made a very nice living on high velocity over-bore cartridges that were safe to shoot because of extremely loooooong bullet jumps into the rifling of a barrel.

When a barrel is approaching being toast will show up in how long it takes for normal accuracy to return to the barrel after cleaning. If the barrel settles down after a couple of shots, the throat and beyond in the barrel is probably in pretty good condition. If it takes 10-20 shots for the barrel to calm down, you can probably expect accuracy to leave at some point in time. At this point, accuracy may leave in just a few additional shots if cracked, fried (alligator hide) barrel steel goes out the end of the tube. Or it may last for a long time in this condition. With any cartridge, this may happen at any time after probably @ 1500 rounds down the barrel. Or it may not happen until well beyond that number... Again....many different variables...

The only way to predict long barrel life for any high intensity cartridge is to leave the rifle in a gun safe for 10 year. If the barrel has been stored properly, you can then accurately say it lasted at least 10 years. Otherwise, how long a barrel will last - in numbers of shots fired - is a variable that even changes from one shooter to the next.

The 204 Ruger - just like any other cartridge - does not posses magical qualities..... In spite of young love telling some of us otherwise...

-BCB

[jo191145]

BCB really bullseyed that one.
My first Sav 204 stainless tube has over 4000 rds through it. It can still be coaxed to shoot some really small groups with WS2 coated bullets at slow speeds but not for very long. It has some sort of divot in the barrel. Caused by excessive oil, exploding sierras or maybe something else entirely. My opinion is that divot is the main reason that barrel no longer shoots consistently for extended sessions. Its all about changing bore conditions but I digress. I can still reach the lands with a 40 Nosler so the throat hasn't retreated that much.
Its replacement was another Sav tube, this time chrome moly. This was absolutely the smoothest factory barrel I've ever witnessed. Odd for a Savage. Very fine rifling judging by eye. At 1500 rds I basically gave up trying to get it to shoot to my standards. It will shoot .5 moa which is not bad at all but I like them to do a little better. Not always easy. The fine rifling is what I suspect is the culprit. Just the carbon after 10 rds is enough to foul it out.

In essence no one can predict barrel life. The 204 should outlast a 22-250 but not a 223. Theres never a guarantee. Performance should trump barrel life anyway. Some slingshots can last 20,000 shots. I'm not interested.

[skipper]

Ahhhhhhhh....the bliss of young love....

Barrel life is like guessing how many fairies you can place on the head of a pin. Any time you are using a cartridge which is slightly over bore (read 204 Ruger, 220 Swift, 22-250 Rem), you are going to have barrel life as a concern.

What formula did you use to determine that the .204 Ruger was an overbore capacity cartridge? My calculation doesn't quite see the 204 as an overbore. In order for it to be overbore it would have to hold over 41.6 grains of water. The 204 case only holds about 30 grains of water.

[WHISTLEPIG]

My Sako 75 Varmint (chrome moly) has about 4000 round through it. Almost all a mild load of 28.2 of h4895 pushing a 32vm. I have got it warm quite a few times, but never blistering hot. I’m showing .027 of erosion. I bore scoped it in November and was surprised to find a bit of alligatoring just past the throat which was not present in April. The barrel still shoots well.

[Bayou City Boy]

Ahhhhhhhh....the bliss of young love....

Barrel life is like guessing how many fairies you can place on the head of a pin. Any time you are using a cartridge which is slightly over bore (read 204 Ruger, 220 Swift, 22-250 Rem), you are going to have barrel life as a concern.

What formula did you use to determine that the .204 Ruger was an overbore capacity cartridge? My calculation doesn't quite see the 204 as an overbore. In order for it to be overbore it would have to hold over 41.6 grains of water. The 204 case only holds about 30 grains of water.

Sorry, skipper....

I guess I should have defined what I meant by "over bore" so you wouldn't have found a need to get out your slide rule and start calculating bore ratios, etc.

As we all know, the term "overbore'" for a cartridge case can mean several different things. I simply used the term in the sense that all three of the cartridges mentioned are not capable of efficiently internally burning a full and safe does of currently available powders. As a result, the bore gets overly scalded with each shot by unburned powder particles traveling at a pretty good velocity.

Some cartridge case designs and sizes are much more efficient in this sense. They achieve good velocity and exhibit low heat and hence good barrel life since most of the powder is consumed in the cartridge case itself. The 20 VT is a good example.

And so you know I'm not picking on your favorite cartridge, I love the 17 Remington and have owned at least one at all times since the 1970's; it is a cartridge case that is extremely overbore in the way I used the term - and hence hard on barrels in a relative sense ......

Heck, I even owned one 204 Ruger rifle and was shooting it long before you could find rifles or buy cartridges for one in Houston... And I like both of the 204 Rugers that I currently own. It's just not close to being the easiest cartridge on barrels with a .204" hole in them...

I'm sure yours will last you a lifetime.....

-BCB