Should I expect better than this???

[ROTAXPOWER]

Well, I havnt been on the forums for a VERY long time, and got a question on some of my groups I have been getting out of my Remington 700 ADL, in 204. I stopped shooting it a long time ago, I picked up a Remington 700 BDL in 17 Remington and I fell in love with, and it gets all my attention, mostly because I can get good groups with it. (.434) Now the best Ihave got with my .204 is .679, and I only shot 1 group like that, and cant repeat it. Unlike my 17, which will do the .434 all day long, everday. No matter what I do I cant repeat that group with my 204. Its either 1" groups all the way to 2.789" @ 100 yards. What would the problem be? The rifle? The scope? The reloads I have been makeing??

If I cant get her to shoot, I will be putting on a .172 barrel on it, and have 2 17 Remingtons......

[jo191145]

You should expect a lot better than that. With enough work and understanding the 204 should be shooting 2's and 3's. Maybe not everyday and usually not when you really want it too but it should do it enough to make you think it will.
When one of my guns shoots as bad as yours I know its one thing. Bore condition. I never hear much said about it on the web forums but I've come to the conclusion most accuracy problems come from a changing bore condition. Mostly copper fouling. Powder fouling can mess up accuracy also but usually not as bad as copper.
At the last shoot I attended I was discussing my new F class rifle with a retired Palma shooter that was there. He invited me to bring it to the range he still shoots at. I was explaining my problem with coppering and that it was'nt ready for the big time yet. He then told me he always shot moly and he would never consider going to a match unless he had at least 150 rds down the tube. Said he did'nt want his bore condition to change in the middle of a match. I could've hugged the guy. Never heard anyone else make a statement like that. Was beginning to think I'm nuts (probably am anyway)

There are some tubes that just won't shoot well. So far I have found nothing that will change that fact. Still working on that at this moment though. Got some pans in the fire.

Besides that there still could be a bunch of other things wrong. I'm not a Rem guy. Could you change the stocks between both guns and try both that way. Might help rule out a bad fitting stock. Maybe swap scopes too.

When you shoot groups do they start out ok and then go wild or are they miserable from the start? Ever get the first three looking real good/touching? How about factory ammo?
How many different bullets and powders have you tried? Be specific.

Stick with it we'll get you through this

[ROTAXPOWER]

Thanks for the reply. I have had the gun since new, I clean the barrel all the time with wipe out, and the patches do not come out blue, so there should be no copper in the tube. I also have only about 100-120 rounds down it too. I am going to finish loading for the 17, and then I will try and load some for the 204, and see what will happen. I know the stock on the 204 isnt very good, seems to have alote of flex to it. Maybe that is the problem??

[cshooter]

My Ruger seems to like a little forward pressure on the barrel. An old gunsmith told me that with some guns, usually thin barreled ones,this gives the best accuracy. Some guns don't always shoot their best free floated. But it all depends on the gun. He did recomend to keep the stock as sturdy as possible, no flex. I have noticed on my thiner barrel that it will group alot better - more consistant with no flyers- if the barrel is allowed to cool evenly sometimes as much as 10 minutes between shots. When coyote hunting this is'nt a problem, but if PD hunting you would probably be better off with a heavy barreled rifle that has the stock screws pillar beded anyways. In short, wether hot or cold, keep the barrel the same temp from breech to tip, especially on thinner barrels and you will find out what the gun is really capable of. Then you can try other little perks to improve on that. I must have tried 10 different loads and 4 different factory loads before I found what my rifle liked. Do'nt give up, it'll shoot and the 204 is better all around than a 233 or 17 Rem or that's the conclution I've got from some friends that own both.

[jo191145]

Wipeout and Patchout are both great products. They do not work well with carbon though. If your not already first use a normal cleaning solvent and brush to remove most of the carbon. Dry the bore and then use the wipe out. Let sit overnight and if you still see no blue I'll buy the darn gun from you, Remington name and all

Good Luck

[Gube]

Wipeout does NOT remove carbon. My last four cleanings were done with wipeout only. (left it in overnight).
I just finished some test loads of 35 gr bergers using benchmark. I was not happy with the results out of my VLP and BTVSS. Over 1/2".
Afterwards I did my usual cleaning of putting in the wipeout and running patches though it the next evening. But this time once I was done I decided to give them a scrub with Kleen Bore No 10 Gun Cleaning Solvent. I was shocked at the amount of black crud that the patches picked up. It took me three more scrubbings after that to finally get them clean.
Now I will have to back to the range (my back yard) for further testing.

[skipper]

My experience is to keep the bore as clean of carbon as possible. This usually requires a good scrubbing with a bore brush and moderate solvent. I'm really surprised at how much soot comes out of the barrel. I usually have to scrub one or two stroke for each shot. If I shoot 50 rounds at the range, that's a lot of scrubbing. The point is that I don't think Wipe Out or any other cleaner left to soak overnight will get all the carbon out of a barrel. If you aren't scrubbing with a bore brush you are probably letting carbon build up at the throat where it accumulates the most naturally. If you're in doubt, soak a patch in bore cleaner and insert it just into the throat area and let it sit for 30 minutes. Then push it on out of the muzzle and take a look. If it's black, you need to scrub some more. I've done that test on barrels that I thought were clean and found that they weren't as clean as I had thought. If accuracy is falling off, try a good scrubbing first. You might save yourself a lot of grief.

I have also found that some powders have a tendency of building up more than others. While RE-10X is one of my favorite powders, it builds up in the throat area really bad in my 204s. On the other hand Benchmark and Vihta Vouri clean up really easily. The others I use like H4895, H335, H322 and Varget fall somewhere in between those extremes. Try a different powder.

If you only have 150 rounds down the tube, she may not be broken in good yet. Factory reamers might be a little on the dull side and have left a burr on the leade to the lands. Another good range trip should help if that's the problem.

[Ryan S Albright]

I found that carbon was my problem I was using copper cleaners then I ran a patch with Remington Oil down the barrel it came out black. I was having accuracy problems. When I started scrubbing my barrel with a brush more often and cleaning for carbon my groups came back great.