SmallCaliberCentral

I was looking at buying a .17 for general plinking and small game hunting. I had set on a HMR. . . .until I spotted a Fireball

Does anyone have experience with this caliber? What issues exist with chamber pressures and barrel ware? When will Savage get this caliber? Too may questions. . . anyone have answers??

Big difference between the Hummer and the Fireball obviously going from rimfire to centerfire....

Really don't consider the Fireball a plinker as it is a killer...

Its a 17 mk 4 short. The 20 cal is the 20 Vartarg. A very efficient round powder wise. The seventeens have small little holes in the barrels and the cases to pour powder in. requires small cleaning rods.

Very fun round to shoot! Good companion to go with the 204 for shorter shots between 100 and 300 yards on PDs.

Seems that anytime I start thinking I need a new caliber, I price the components...particularly the brass.

Price, availability, and brand......these three items are not listed in order...they all place 1st.

The price should be comparable to same size of other cases in the class (204/223, 243/308, any /06 size, etc, etc).

Availability - don't get boxed into a rifle that has brass that costs a buck a round for the cheap stuff....or even 50 cents a round! That is $50/100 rounds of brass. At 10 reloads...your cost per round of brass is still a nickel a round! cha ching!

Brand - well...last couple of years...has been Remington for me. I don't have the wallet for Lapua....so I buy RP, Win, or military if available in caliber.

With the prices that we will supposedly be paying next year....I am almost to the point of...if I cannot make it out of a 223, 308, or 30/06 case.....I cannot afford the round.

I REALLY hope I am wrong on the last statement.

As far as I know there is still no factory brass available for the 17FB (at least Midway still says "coming soon"). It is quite easy to make brass from most of the .223 family cases. I got a Rem 700 SPS Varmint in 17 Fireball, it is fun as heck to shoot (the wife even likes shooting it).

sniper: You'll love the 17FB. I've been shooting the twin for about 9 years now, the 17 Mach IV, and consider it one of the most fun cartridges in my varmint lineup. I shoot mine in a custom Sako Vixen (L461) with Shilen SS barrel and McMillian stock, and for both PD's and ground squirrels, it's about perfect, and good for shots just past 400 yards if the wind is not howling.

You will need a new bore guide, cleaning rod, and brushes/jags, but hey, it is a very fun round. Like acloco says, brass is easily made from 22FB cases (all I've ever used), and is is miserly on powder. It is a VERY accurate round, mine is sub .5 MOA regularly.

Here's some freshly formed, neck turned and annealed rounds with Berger 25 grainers coated with WS2 ready to be launched at Skippy and his pals out in the alfalfa.....good stuff!



Now that the 17M4 is a factory round, it's success is guaranteed, and components will be available. Go for it!

The 17 HMR fires a 17 Gr V-Max bullet at a MV of 2550 ft/sec. The 17 Fireball fires a 20 grain bullet at a MV of 4,000 ft/sec. A box 50 ea of 17 Gr 17 HMR rounds are going for around $ 11.00 . The 17 Fireball 20 Gr ammo cost $ 24.00 per box of 20 ea. I purchased five boxes so that I would have 100 cases. With the Rem ammo my Rem Model 700 CDL SF Limited 17 Fireball w/ Leo 6-18 X rifle shot .6 inch five shot 100 yard groups after adjusting the trigger pull down to 2 3/4 pounds and free floating the barrel. I load the Hornady 25 Gr HP bullet with 19.0 Gr Benchmark powder (MAX) in the Rem cases with Federal 205 M primers. The 25 Gr bullet Avg MV is 3880 ft/sec from the 24 inch barrel. The 25 Gr reloads are also are doing .6 inch groups. I use the 17 HMR for shots on prairie dogs out to about 150 yards where the bullet has about 100 ft/lb of energy. I shot 50 some prairie dogs with the 20 Gr bullets from the Fireball at ranges from 125 yards to aboiut 280 yards. The 25 Gr bullet from the Fireball still has 340 ft/lb of energy at 300 yards. I like the low muzzle blast of the 17 Fireball and I can see the bullet hit the p dogs when the scope is set at 18 X. Reloading data for the 17 Fireball is at http://data.hodgdon.com

I too am thinking of a small cartridge to expand my fun factor on various rodent shooting. Has anybody tried the 17 Fireball side by side with a 20 Vartarg? What is the opinion of our brain trust out there?

Hotshot wrote:I too am thinking of a small cartridge to expand my fun factor on various rodent shooting. Has anybody tried the 17 Fireball side by side with a 20 Vartarg? What is the opinion of our brain trust out there?

You really need at least one of each! You may as well toss a 221 Fireball in there as well.

Waldo,

Your idea is wonderfull, but I have to live within a budget that will only allow one for now. I just need input to help make the best choice. I did buy a 17HMR last summer and I really love it in low wind 150 yards or less gopher shooting. My 204's do most of the other work out to 500 plus. 22-250, 220 Swift and 6mm-06 hardly see day light since I discovered the 204. I think my 223 barrel is probably rusted shut, since I never use it. I will re-barrel that rifle for one of the fireball family in preparation for spring shooting. The rifle is a Remington, if it was a Savage I could just buy a couple barrels and put them on myself. I'm leaning toward the 17 Fireball, but the experiences of the forum members will influence the decision.

My Vartarg is not finished yet so I have no field time with it, you already have a 20 caliber so you may as well get the 17FB now and add to your 20 cal collection later.

The only thing holding me back from that move is wind. We do get that sometimes in Montana. My coyote hunting buddy loves 17 cal. untill the wind comes up, then he prefers 204 or 20-250 (I will get a 9 or 10 twist barrel for my Savage in that chambering soon). I have been truly amazed at the little 20 cal bullets in the wind and I do like the 20 cal bullet choices. Still a toss up at this point.

Hotshot: I was faced with your exact same decision some time ago, but at that time, the 20VT was almost unheard of. I built the 17 Mach IV, as lots of data and components available then, love it, and will continue to use it, but now that the 20VT is more popular, components are plentiful, I'll have one built soon to have the best of both worlds. The big problem then is getting ready for a rat safari, standing in front of the safe, mumbling to onself "which ones to take this time" (this usually results in more rifles/calibers going than one could possibly want to shoot (or clean) during one weekend trip).

I've talked with Todd Kindler many times about the 20VT, and it is about his favorite wildcat. He thinks it is about the most inherently accurate 20 cal round, and the most efficient in terms of velocity, case to bore ratio and performance. But like Waldo mentioned, you need both!

(All the above commentary is predicated on the fact that the 17FB and the 17M4 are basically the same round ((except for small differences in chamber dimensions)).

OK! I'll sell my 223 and build a Savage with both barrels. Progress reports to follow.