A cautionary note................

glenn asher · Post by **glenn asher** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 3:57 pm

http://www.varminthunters.com/forum/sho ... php?t=6651

Since most of us don't use the .204 for ALL our rodent killin', it might be a public service announcement to post this here, also. Priced right doesn't always mean they are a good buy, especially if they don't work correctly.

skb2706 · Post by **skb2706** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 11:55 am

A guy on another site (yep I'm on other sites) disliked his VGs so much he gave them away for shipping. He gave me 36 of them and I was not impressed at all. Shooting them from a Shilen barreled .221 that is normally a very very accurate rifle ....they were only so so.

So so doesn't get it when you have time, money and all riding on the trip.

Ohiyesa · Post by **Ohiyesa** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 6:25 pm

Barnes makes the Varmint Grenade dont they ? and do you think Barnes just put them out there quick with Known Flaws in them ? and why and what was rattling inside? Do you think the maker will fix the problems and then exchange them for some good ones

Ohiyesa · Post by **Ohiyesa** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 6:27 pm

why the heck is there a burning devil in my 1st post above?

glenn asher · Post by **glenn asher** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:06 pm

I can't answer your questions, I was only repeating what someone else's experiences were. ANY company can let things slide, I've seen Sierras with the plastic tips cockeyed or fallen out, a time or two, it happens to the best of them. In Barnes' case, I'd guess that the machine that tamps the zinc???? down into the jacket wasn't adjusted properly, or got out of adjustment. I don't know how they do things at Barnes, I HAVE been to the Sierra plant tour three times, and Hornady's plant tour, twice. They usually have an operator at the machine at all times.......

Ohiyesa · Post by **Ohiyesa** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 3:20 pm

Thank you for your reply Glenn
I may have read it wrong then,,I thought there was like 3 or 4 Replies on that Linked website that said they ALL had problems and I dont think there were any POSITIVE replies about the VG Bullets ?
I do agree that anything can happen to the BIG Companies,,it just sounded to me that since the VG Bullets were cheap these guy bought them expecting one thing but instead got another thing,I am glad i seen this though because I thought about getting some for my 22-250
But now I think I will pass on the Barnes VG Bullets,,I just don't understand the Pencil sized hole,,The VG Bullet Ad reads a whole lot different
And I do thank you for your reply and info on this
Thank you

glenn asher · Post by **glenn asher** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 4:12 pm

"The VG Bullet Ad reads a whole lot different", that's the rub, isn't it

Technically, a zinc (sintered) bullet core should be as good as any, but if it slips, it will play hob with accuracy, and if it doesn't "grenade" like it's supposed to, it might ricochet and wallop a cow or horse or kid, for that matter. I think I'll stick with "old technology" for awhile longer.......

Ohiyesa · Post by **Ohiyesa** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 9:18 pm

Glenn
I feel the same way,,I will stick with the V-Max

,,it just took me by surprise that Barnes would put out such a Shoddy Product ?
I THINK I seen an Ad somewhere maybe on Midsouth or Midway,,but I seen someone Advertise 100 Barnes Varmint Grenades for $11-$12 ?
and it kind of shocked me that Barnes SOLD a Bullet that cheap !
but THANK GOD for V-Max

skb2706 · Post by **skb2706** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 6:57 am

I think their original intent was to come out with a "non lead" varmint bullet to satisfy new state requirements in places like CA.
Making non lead bullets is no trick

Making non lead varmint bullets that work has proven quite a challenge.

First thing you notice about them is the length...they are quite large for a 36 gr. bullet.

It will not be the first bullet introduced by the Barnes Bullet Co. that did not work as advertized.

Ohiyesa · Post by **Ohiyesa** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 12:24 pm

skb2706 wrote:I think their original intent was to come out with a "non lead" varmint bullet to satisfy new state requirements in places like CA.
Making non lead bullets is no trick

Making non lead varmint bullets that work has proven quite a challenge.

First thing you notice about them is the length...they are quite large for a 36 gr. bullet.

It will not be the first bullet introduced by the Barnes Bullet Co. that did not work as advertized.

SKB
IF this is not there first Bullet that DIDN'T work as Advertised how in the heck do they sell anything and WHY do they charge a Premium on their other Bullets ? I always thought that ALL Barnes Bullets were TOP of the Line? heck I thought about changing Pistol Bullets from the XTP to a Barnes Pistol Bullet,,I THINK I will stick with the Hornady Bullets all around

skb2706 · Post by **skb2706** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 12:46 pm

I didn't say they didn't sell ...I said they didn't work (at least in my opinion) as advertized.
This is a quoted ad from their site -

"XLC Bullets are coated with BarnesÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ proprietary, high-tech, XLC solid dry film lubricant that significantly reduces friction as the bullet passes through the bore. Less friction means lower pressures; as a result, XLC-coated X-Bullets can safely be loaded to higher velocities. XLC coating also reduces fouling and heat build-up, and improves accuracy. XLC is NOT molybdenum, and will not leave a coating residue in the bore."

I 'll buy it all right up to the part about "improves accuracy". If that were the case you would certainly hear about them much more often. Also anyone who ever used them will assure you they do in fact leave a blue residue in your barrel that is difficult to remove as few solvents will break it down.

The asumption could be made that the coating "improves accuracy" over their non-coated bullets....not exactly a testimonial for those I'd say.

To be quite honest with you I really like their TSX bullets in several calibers and load with them frequently. If you visit their site you will find they make several different styles of bullets........my opinion is that they have not made a great varmint bullet to date.

Rick in Oregon · Post by **Rick in Oregon** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 1:15 pm

skb: Whooaa there buddy! I think we're getting two Barnes bullets a bit mixed up.

The Varmint Gernade was the subject of much debate due to percieved failures in the field, and the bullet you discuss above is their VLC, blue-coated bullet that I myself personally, have had most excellent results with over a five year period on PD's, ground squirrels, coyotes, and rock chucks.

The VLC coating is not hard to remove in the bore, they foul less than uncoated bullets, are quite accurate in my .223's, 220 Swift and .223 Ackley.

I have zero experience with their VG bullet, so offer no comment, but don't lump all their varmint bullets into one beef, as their VLC has always performed excellent for me. Below is the VLC, much different than the VG, and is a standard lead core bullet:

I also shoot their TSX for big game, and like you, highly recommend them, as they always give 100% complete penetration on every animal I've ever shot with them, and don't blow apart. Very good stuff indeed.

skb2706 · Post by **skb2706** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 1:27 pm

The discussion actually envolved both the VGs, my limited experience with them and VLCs and again my limited experiences with them.

The VLCs never shot for me as well as the list that includes Vmaxs (in many configurations), Blitz Kings, Noslers or even TNTs.

The Varmint Grenades...this is what I got. Shilen barreled .221 FB that will shoot any safe combination I have ever put down it extremely well. The VGs were only so/so.

I can shoot prairie dogs for free, at will, any time, long as I want. Arguably I have way less invested into a trip then the average guy from the midwest making a long trip to do so.

It would be a cold day in heck that I would "bank" the trip on the strengths of either Barnes varmint bullets I have tried.

Rick in Oregon · Post by **Rick in Oregon** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 1:45 pm

skb: Well, I suppose this once again illustrates that all barrels are different, and may or may not shoot any particular bullet well.

Like you, I can shoot all the ground squirrels (you have PD's) I want, for as long as I have ammo, so I don't have a great investment involved to spend a few days popping rats. I'll buy the most accurate bullet I can find for any given rifle, so I shoot V-Max's, BT's, and BK's in additon to the Barnes VLC's. But as the VLC bullet has been discontinued, when my stash is gone, it will be moot (at least to me).

With no experience whatever with the Varmint Gernade though, I can't even comment....but, we're talking about two completely different bullets here; one is a composit with a zinc powder core, versus a conventional led core, copper cup bullet with a proprietary coating.....NOT the same, so unfair to offer the same criticisim.

I'll freely admit though, that from the start, I had misgivings about the VG bullet, as without a solid core of some sort, I can't imagine consistant accuracy. This technology was initially delvoped for LE work, and specifically Air Marshalls and Homeland Security.....for a different breed of varmint.

Ohiyesa · Post by **Ohiyesa** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 3:01 pm

Both of you sound like you know a little something about Bullets,, I have
NEVER heard or seen the Blue "VLC" Bullets before,,I wish I would have because I would have tried them out,,but WHY were the Blue VLC Bullets Discontinued if they were such a good Bullet ?
Since you guys said you like the V-Max and the Nosler Ballistic Tips I have a Question for you both,,IF you want to answer,,I bought
200 Nosler BT Bullets for my 22-250,and when they were gone I Bought
100 V-Max Bullets,BOTH 55 Grn,,I Got a good deal on the V-max so I bought 100,Now I figured the POI would be different BUT when I shot the V-Max they hit in the SAME place as the Nosler BT, I used the same Load as I used for the Nosler BT
Have either of you experienced this? so wouldnt that meen that the Nosler BT & the V-Max are exactly the same?
And will Barnes Try to "FIX" the Problem with their VG Bullets or will they just keep letting people buy 100 Pcs of Bad product and then tell all their Buddies how BAD the VG Bullets are until NO ONE EVER buys another of their VG Bullets ?