SmallCaliberCentral

It is too early to be wishing for the sage rats to be coming out from under the snow????

You got snow???Send some down here.I'm tired cutting grass.

No snow here but I've been wishing for a while now that they'd come out.

We could use some snow, all we have is fire! Lucky for me we are just to the east of all the smoke. Just wish I could get out in a field of squirrels and send em airborne. Its going to be a long winter/fall. I'll be ready for em though!

This time of year I look at all of the photos from last Spring's adventures while holding my Cooper .204 in a darkened room! Is it Spring yet?

Just talked to my FFL dealer in town. We both are looking forward to squeak shooting with new 17 hornets! Of course the 204 will be used to send squirrels into orbit, when necessary. Hoping for a short winter.

Is Sage Rats an other name for Prairie Dogs or Belding Ground Squirrels ? I live in prairie dog country and have shot them all year long. By mid summer most are muzzle blast smart . So I start out with the 17 HM2 and 17 HMR shooting p pups . By mid summer use a 17 Fireball and 204 Ruger. Talked to a Hornady employee who said that they expect 17 Hornet rifles will become available in Jan or Feb 2013. I ll get a 17 Hornet rifle when one is available that I like. I started shooting prairie dogs in 1949 with a 22 RF rifle.and so far have shot them with the 17 HM2, 17 HMR, 17 Fireball, 17 Rem, 204 Ruger, 22 RF, 22WMR, 22 Hornet, 221 Fireball, 222 Rem, 223 Rem, 22-250 Rem, 220 Swift, 243 Win, and a few with big game rifles. Using 10.0 Gr Max load of Lil Gun powder with a 20 Gr bullet in the 17 Hornady Hornet it should have a lower muzzle blast less than the other centerfire rifles I have used. If I can work up a reload that will group 1/2 inch or less at 100 yards it should be good for shots out to the 250, 275 yard ranges. Wind drift is not a problem for me , I go home when the wind gets up to about 10 MPH.

tuck2 wrote:Is Sage Rats an other name for Prairie Dogs or Belding Ground Squirrels ?

The moniker "sage rat" usually refers to the Beldings Ground Squirrel, which are thick around these parts. Down south around CA they call them "picket pins", "squeaks" or just "rats". This critter is about 1/3 the size of an adult prairie dog, and does not stay sitting upright for as long as periods...they're much more 'twitchy' than PD's, and much harder to hit at extended range. Their favorite food is aflalfa, and they eat ALOT of it.

Here's some young sage rat pups exploring just outside their burrow last year:



Sage rats also do not stay above ground as long as the PD during the year, usually emerging late Feb, and go back to sleep underground around mid-July or sooner. I've shot 'em both all my adult life, and much prefer the sage rat....much more stupid, very forgiving of rifle fire, usually found in much greater numbers and they just plain launch higher in the air due to less mass!

A decent hit from anything from the 17 Ackley Hornet, to the 204 usually results in great areal displays:



One thing for sure, after years of shooting sage rats, the first time I went shooting prairie dogs, it was like shooting large house cats! The things were/are huge by comparison, so hitting them past 500 yards was no where near as difficult as hitting our little sage rats at the same range. We looked like real Quigley's out there with the SD or WY or MT locals, smaking PD's out past 500 yards, but just took it in stride when they told us we were 'great shots'. Great shots indeed......when the targets are three times larger at the same range, anyone can look like a hero!

And like Captqc said:......."Is it spring yet?" I wish!

So right RIO.. What I call a "Picket Pin" down here, are very small little targets in the 4-500 range.. But fun Bill K

One of the local ranchers around here called 'em "Bobbie-squirrels", maybe because of their "bobbed" tails? My best guess. So add another one to the nicknames list. Since 17HMR seems to be getting pricier, I think the Hornet should come in handy. 9-10 grains of powder should take a while to get the barrel warm. My FFL guy is getting a CZ in 17 Hornet. They should be coming out around the end of the year. This whole 17 Hornet launch has been very strange. Ive seen the ammo on shelves for several months, dies and everything are out, but NO factory rifles! WTH? Well I hope Savage gets em cranking, because I just sent my check out today. February would be nice. If I can afford or find a rifle between now and then, it will have to be a Cooper 20 VT.


Sage Rats sure are hard to hit at "long distance" (for me 200 yds). Even 150 is challenging. Especially the little ones. They sure are active, most of my misses are because the suckers decide to move as soon as there is forward motion with the firing pin. The nice thing about hitting them with the HMR is that a good percentage of em get some good air. I can imagine that the Hornet with 3500 fps will get them up pretty good. Wonder why Cooper doesn't come out with the 17 Hornet in their Model 38? They could be making some cash about now.
Well back to dreamin' about red mist...

Houston, we have lift-off!

Look at that big Mossy-back in the background watching his buddy fly.

Bodei: I've been using my Ruger No.3 in .17 Ackley Hornet for ten years on sage rats......there's no need to wait on the factory rifles, just build yourself one now. Cooper will eventually offer the 17HH and those will be some sweet rifles indeed. But right now the Ackley version gives me an honest 3,810 fps using the 20gr V-Max NOW.....not when they decide to release the bogus Savage M25 in it's full ugliness......they could have done much better on that one.

What I'm saying is that there's no need to wait on the factories and their much-too expensive 17 Hornet ammo.....you can have one right now, and with better ballistics in the Ackley version and fireform your brass from Hornet cases.

Here's the 22 K-Hornet alongside the standard Hornet, and the zippy game-changing .17 Ackley Hornet on the right:



If you like shooting rifles that sound like a .22 Mag, recoil like one, but capable of 400 yard rat performance, then the 17 Hornet is for you, but again, you don't have to wait on the factories, and you can have a better one now....the Ackley version. Here's my Ruger in the field during a range session working up loads:



I've registered sage rat kills just past 400 yards with mine......zero recoil, minimal noise, see virtually all your hits/misses. It's another one of those "perfect rat calibers", at least to me.

Wow, nice sales pitch! Yeah I'm not a huge fan of the Model 25's, just the price. I think a Ruger with the rotary mag would be sweet in 17 hornet, but Ruger doesn't seem to be leading the way much these days. I really like those falling block actions, though. Do you have to full length resize for them? I am guessing just a neck resize won't work as in a bolt action?

Bodei wrote:I really like those falling block actions, though. Do you have to full length resize for them? I am guessing just a neck resize won't work as in a bolt action?

Bodei: Yep, for the single shot falling block rifles I shoot, I F/L all cases just for the ease of proper chambering. They just don't have the same extraction power of a bolt gun with it's camming action for extraction. I learned that the hard way.....drove all the way down to N. CA for a shoot on a large alfalfa ranch, took my Ruger No.1V in 223 with 300 rounds of NECK SIZED cases with Nosler 40gr BT's all loaded to 3,800 fps. Bummer was, none of the neck sized rounds would chamber in the No.1.

Good thing I always take at least 3 CF rifles on these outings, so I just switched to my Sako bolt gun and proceeded to send Skippy skyward for three days. Lesson learned.

Falling block single shots are great fun to load for and shoot, but it's best to F/l size for them "just to make sure".......



Oh, and hang in there in regard to a Ruger 77/17 Hornet. Hold off on the M25 "ugly rifle"......you may be pleasantly surprised in the not-so-distant future. Remember: "good things come to those who wait"......

HUM Rick, will it be magazine feed or have a rotary ? Bill K