SmallCaliberCentral

rpknaz: yeah that is my cat, but my bro in law had to finish it off with a shot to the head while it was growling at us from the mouth of a cave. Long story that isn't is good as rick's, although it does involve me poking the lion with a stick while it growled at one point .
Rick: not that I needed any recommendation on gun/caliber other than yours, it's nice to see other experienced people have similar taste! However, like most people these days the wants far outweigh the means. I'm sure that will change someday though.
Just out of curiosity where did the other .38 bullets end up hitting? Oh, and by the way if I ever run into John in the outback I'm gonna do my best not to piss him off. Looks like a tough dude!

Rick, That story sure brings back memories of a similar cat/cave encounter. Back when I was a pup, I helped guide hunters for an outfitter in NW Co. We bayed a lion in a cave that looked similar to that one. The hunter wanted to kill his cat with a stick and string, but problem was, all you could see of the cat, was his head about 30 foot back in a hole. The hunter was not willing, thankfully, to send an arrow. He borrowed a Colt Woodsman .22 pistol from the outfitter, and plinked him betwixt the lookers. Since I was the only one skinny enuff to crawl in after him, well, it had to be done.... With a hi-std 22 magnum in one hand and a flashlight in the other, and a lariat rope tied to my foot, I started the trek. It was tight enuff, that I had to hold both arms ahead, with little room to raise my head. Coupled with the fact that we didn't know if the cat was truly dead or not, and the close quarters combined to bring on a panic attack. I got stuck and lost it. My outfitter talked me down and calmly reassured me that it was ok. After a few deep breaths I continued my wiggling pace. When I panicked, I thrashed around enuff to beat my head on the rocks until it bled. About half way to the cat, I could see he was dead. So I got to him and tied the rope around his feet and head, and with the guys on the outside pulling, and me kinda pushing, we was able to get him out. Wasn't as big as your friends, but the hunter was well pleased.........Here's that kitty.

I think I had a little bit of a panic attack just reading that Don. Claustrophobia takes on new meaning when there is a lion in there with you.

bullfrog: The two .38 cal 125gr JHP's mentioned were both were in the tough chest/shoulder muscles, fully expanded. They are supposed to work on two legged predators, and probably would if shot frontally through the chest/heart-lung area, but the old cat was pretty tough and muscular, neither of them penetrated to the boiler room.

About John; he's a tough bugger alright, spends alot of time on his horse or on foot in the outback. He's currently remodeling my house, and I have a hard time keeping him here on the job and not wandering away into the bush all the time. Great guy, good friend, and also a master carpenter, not to mention hunter of hunters.....

Don: Good story! In truth, I think all/any of us would have reacted the same way, pup or not. When you get into close quarters with a critter that can and will eat you, it's an entirely different matter. All the macho stuff gets left at the cave enterance. Great photo, nice cat.

Sidebar to both of your stories that has a .22LR in it: On one hog hunt in central California one spring, I heard my buddy shoot twice with his .243W, and after a few minutes, about seven or eight "pops". I mosied over two drainages to see what was up. He was up an live oak tree at the edge of a dry creek, rifle below yelling at me to "finish him off". HE had been treed by a very pissed off large Russian boar that he had shot at 300 yards while the hog was rooting in the creekbed, and hit him in the mouth, broke the jaw, and the bullet had lodged in the hogs shoulder. Not wanting to torch off my .270 so close to him with all the rocks around, I crept to the edge of the wash, leaned over with my Colt Woodsman .22LR (the one I wish I had never sold...), and popped the hog in the ear with a CCI Mini-Mag HP. He was DRT at that point. My buddy had emptied his little Beretta .25 auto at the hog while in the tree, and every slug had bounced off the hogs forehead, just making him madder.

When we got home and weighed Mr. Piggie, he tipped the scales at 466 lbs.; the largest one we ever got. He's mounted over my buddy's mantle to this day, and a very ugly bugger he is with 4" tusks. I've got an old picture of him that I could scan and post if anyone is interested. Until my friend passed away in '98, I ribbed him about being treed by a pig for many years.

Rick...........Thanks for sharing the story and we're all very greatful of a safe out come with such big kitty. Now I know the reason behind ........."carey enought gun".
Those bit musles are huge. Great pics of one big kitty.
Later
Ray P

Hold on a minute. Heather has a stand off with this cat, then holds the light so you can finish it, then crawls into the cave to put the rope on it. Does she have any sisters? Sounds like quite a gal. Next time let her shoot, she earned it.

rick I think most of the wackos are here in california allready now all we need is a big earthquake to thin the herd. A direct hit on Hollyweird would be perfect.

Ray P.: Yep, most folks consider the phrase "carry enough gun" refers to "personal protection" from two legged predators, but when in the outback, the cats are probably ten times more dangerous than any cretin you'd meet in a store parking lot at night. A .38 Spl is enough for them, but even then I prefer a .45 to equal things up.

Hotshot: Funny you should mention Heather like that. Matter of fact, just after the cat incident, John bought her a Sig .40 for their trips into the outback. That girl can shoot too! John says he has to practice more now just to keep up with her, and she's only had the new pistol for a week. She got a kick about your asking if she had a sister. (No, but I know what you mean )

steve: Ha! Hollywierd, I love it. Problem is, they have equal or more numbers in SF and the "liberal states" that carried Nobama, but a good quake would indeed thin their numbers a tad. I'd miss some of the movies, but not them. Too bad we can't send them some "Care Packages" that would contain a big fiesty cougar!

Rick,
Quite an experience with the cat; lesson learned carry a trail gun.
I'm surprised that no one has requested you post the pic of the hog. If you have time, I'm sure I'm not the only one who would enjoy!

RLKondo: By request, and from the PM's I received about the big 'ole hog, here's some shots of that old smelly boy. He was a large Russian Razorback boar, and after the hit with the .243W frontally in the mouth, he was in a very bad mood that day.



My buddy Jim with him when we got him home:



Jim is in the Happy Hunting Ground now, with all the squirrels, hogs and deer he wants. We shared many good Harley rides, hog hunts, squirrel shoots, deer hunts and good times in the years we shared together. Like all good friends, he sure is missed.

Here's the old boy on the wall as he appeared back in the day. Both his ears were split, and he had many scars from fights with other boars:



He now resides in Jim's sons house, as Jim's widow really didn't think the old boy was handsome enough to share her family room. That was a good hunt, and I can still remember ribbing Jim about being treed by a pig. He sold his little Beretta .25ACP soon after that, and carried a .38 Super from then on. He was a California state prison guard, rode a show-winning Harley chopper he built, and one tough hombre in his time. When he moved up here to Oregon with us, he told me that he had found 'paradise'. Not as many hogs, but plenty of squirrels, coyotes and deer to keep him happy.

Well that does it Im telling the wife were moving back to eastern Oregon ASAP.........well maybe ask if we can would be more like it. Im heading down in june or july to do some flyfishing anyways.

Rick - thanks for posting the story & photos! That's great.

The little .38 can be loaded fairly warm with some heavy cast lead semi-wadcutters for better penetration, but there are better options! We had a gal here kill a cougar on her back porch while it was trying to get her dog, she used a little .38 special successfully. I'd feel better with more gun for sure!

Guy: While talking to my neighbor who lives in back of me here (we really don't talk much), she told me that last fall late one night, a lion came into her yard, ate one of her bunnies, then when they came out the door to see what the racket was, the lion jumped over the fence into MY yard!

Good thing my girls weren't out doing they're busines about then, they were most likely taking up more than their share of room on my bed, but she waited until four or five months later to tell me that! Nice.....

If I had seen the cat, it would have been the first time my "bedside gun" and Surefire light actually would have been put to use, and I would have found out how good a WW 185gr HP .45 would have worked on kitty....... There was no snow on the ground, so I never saw any sign of the cat later the next day. "They walk among us!"

The tourist town of Leavenworth Washington is just up the road from my place, and cougars are often seen in or near town. The gal I mentioned shot one on her back porch. A couple of Sheriff's deputies arrived at a 911 call, the homeowner had come home to find a cougar in his garage, eating his boxer dog! The deputies killed the cat with a shotgun and a .45 pistol. Another young cat actually latched onto a local pastor's leg while he was playing catch with his wirehair fox terrier. The dog attacked the cat, driving it away, into the forest. I actually met said dog later, the little 30 pounder was quite proud of herself.

A favorite passtime of mine this time of year is to hike out into the hills near our wintering mule deer herds and see if I can cross a cougar track in the snow. No such luck yet, but a fellow I know did just that a couple of weeks ago not far from here while he was out hunting chuckar. He slipped the birdshot out of the shotgun & dropped in a couple of rounds of buckshot and followed the tracks. The cat quickly treed, and he shot it. Nice big cat too - similar in size to the one your buddy got in the first post. I usually end up with a coyote or nothing, but I keep hoping for a cat, and it keeps me out there hiking in the winter! The only time I walked up on one here was on a rainy spring day while hiking an abandoned logging road. The road was covered with wet pine needles, which quieted my steps. I came around a bend in the road, and there sat a good size cougar! I was quite surprised, and at first the cat had no clue I was there. Then he/she figured out there was company, took one look at me and shot off into the forest. Those things are utterly silent when they move, and incredibly fast. I decided it was time to hike back to the truck instead of continuing down the road deeper into the wilderness. It was a few weeks after our rather long cougar season had closed. Darn it. Would have been a great chance for me with my .45, range was only 20 yards or so...

Another guy told me about his 14 year old son who went outside one night to see what had the chickens so riled up. For whatever reason the lad took his 12 gauge outside with him. A few shots rang out and the lad came running back inside eyes wide. All he could say was "CCCCCCCougar!" Mama & son waited for dear old dad to get home from work, told him about it. They went out with lights, a reloaded shotgun and found a very dead cougar just up the hill from their place... That youngster did well!

Hunting whitetail with a friend, over in northeast Washington, I met him at our pre-arranged time and place. Chris was pacing around with kind of a funny look on his face. I hadn't heard a shot. Asked him if he was okay and all he said to me, several times, was "I saw a cougar." Eventually he told me that he'd been watching something sneaking through the trees below his clifftop lookout, and couldn't figure out what it was. He tried, but was unable to make a shot opportunity happen.

One of these days I'll run across one again. I hope it's during season and that I'm ready to take advantage of the opportunity... I bumped into one earlier this fall while steelhead fishing, but was unable to get my pistol out in time for a shot. Those things are fast!

Someday...

Hey rick that picture sure looks alot like rosie odonnel .