Bull Elk - Use Enough Gun!

[Rick in Oregon]

A quick story from the Oregon Rocky Mountain Elk Rifle Season that just finished up yesterday.

My 22 yr. old nephew was hunting with his dad, using a .280 Remington with factory Remmy loads left over from deer season; 150gr Core Lock stuff. He got a very quick opportunity at a 6x6 bull hauling a$$ through the timber, shoots him twice, just a tad too far back, high, right behind the boiler room, as he was really moving quickly, and probably did not lead him enough at 60 yards.

Anyway, they both tracked him for 3-1/2 hours, finally coming to the end of the meager blood trail, only to find two guys with big smiles on their faces just finishing up the quartering of the nice bull, and getting ready to pack him out.

Now the shot placement was not perfect, and the bullets did not exit, being too light for a big bull. Had he been using a heaver 7mm bullet of better construction, say maybe a Nosler 160 Partition or Accubond, or a Barnes X-Bullet, the story MIGHT have been different, as those bullets most likely would have exited, and given a better trail, and caused more internal damage. Notice I said MIGHT have, as we'll never know of course, but it illustrates that you need a heavy bullet of proper construction for bull elk. DEER BULLETS JUST DON'T CUT IT!

Elmer Keith had it right: "Big bullets for big animals". That's the reason so many here use .338 variety rifles....me, a .338-06 Ackley Improved, or a .330 Dakota for elk.

Guy M.: Get that .300 Ultra ready for next year with those 200 grainers!

[bullfrog]

No disagreement here, however I would say that if you choose to hunt elk w/ some lighter cal.'s just know your limits. I've shot elk w/ my .270, but you need to use premium bullets, and good shot placement. Every weapon has it's limits, and understanding the difference of each is important. For ex. I've done a lot of research into black powder as I am about to use that for elk for the first time. Lot's of guys claim 100 yards with open sights in OR, but after talking to guys that I know are talking straight, and after spending time with targets, I know that my range needs to be within 75 yards, preferably closer. IMO, and no offense to your nephew, the worst part of the equation was that the bull was running. Tough lesson.
Am I on target???

[Verminator2]

I didn't get my elk this year Saw 2 herds of them, one we couldn't catch up to, on the other we got them elk to stop they all stuck their heads in the trees where I couldn't see if they had antlers

[Rick in Oregon]

Bullfrog: You're spot on, bud. He's still learning the hard way, like most of us do when young.

We've all nailed bulls with our .270's at one time or another....like you said, shot placement is number one, good bullet second.

[204Shooter]

Boy, I could have a lot of fun with this one, especially when this site is geared toward the little .204.

When I turned 14, I was a little squirt. My dad and brothers all shot .270s. I was smaller however and we got me a .243. I killed a lot of antelope and deer with that rifle. I even went elk hunting with that gun but never got a shot at one. I was armed with 100 grain partitions however.

My dad had a friend that would always hunt elk with a .243 and, for awhile, he got one nearly every year. As I got older and considered hunting elk again, I decided to upgrade my little .243 to something bigger. At the time, the .270 WSM had just come out and was gaining momentum. Considering that my dad had killed MANY elk with his .270 without premium bullets, I figured that I would be better off than he was if I had a .270 WSM and premium bullets.

So far, I have gotten two elk, a spike with a 130 gr. Hornady Interbond and the 5 point this year with a 130 gr. Barnes TSX.

My thought is that for elk, you should use as big of a gun as you can shoot accurately. I consider a .270 the minimum! As I was growing up using my .243, my dad was always there to back me up with his .270. But I would never advise anyone to shoot an elk with a .243. Can it be done? Sure! It has been done many times. Put a premium .243 bullet in the boiler room of an elk at relatively close range and it will die. But shot placement becomes critical! There is little room for error!

And here is the delima. Many times, hunters of small stature, youth and women for example, use the smaller calibers. Too often, these hunters do not have the experience necessary to make the shots that will anchor a bull elk. I do not mean to offend anyone! I fell into this category when I was younger and my wife does now. She currently hunts elk with a muzzle loader. But if she ever decides to chase them with a rifle, I would get her an autoloader with a muzzle brake so that she could step up to a larger caliber while still maintaining the ability to shoot it comfortably.

As a side note, I have a friend who has a lot of magnums. Last year, he shot a nice bull elk with his .375 Ultra Mag. Hmm... I wonder if that was enough gun! He has given me a hard time about my little "girly gun". Still, he was impressed by my .270 WSM and he got one just to mess around with. "I'll use it for antelope and maybe a deer," he would say. Well, this year on his son's elk hunt, they get out of the truck and his son grabs his .300 WSM but can't get the bolt open to load the gun. They fumbled with it for awhile but still could not get it open.

The only other gun they had with them was (you guessed it) his "little" .270 WSM. So off they went. Later that morning, his son had shot a 343 bull with that rifle. He had to shoot it three times. However, it was not the gun's fault. The bull was running and the first shot hit him in the butt. Second shot went into the gut. The third and final shot went into the shoulders. He was using a 130 grain Accubond. I sure got a kick out of his story and his "delima" of having to use his "girly gun"!

[WHISTLEPIG]

Well, since there are opinions being given, I’ll put up mine. I have shot all my elk (13) with a .338. Every one with a 250 gr. Bullet. I had to chase one, but I have had them roll farther down a hill than that. I believe that you have to knock them down right away. A long shot on the Clearwater is 200 yards. My combo works fine at that range and out a ways further. I never shot the rifle which is a Winchester 70 until I had it Mag na Ported. The recoil is very acceptable. All the guys I have hunted with shoot the .375 or .338.

[acloco]

204Shooter - you have skipped one of the best calibers for stopping power and knockdown ability.

Check ANY of your reloading manuals. BC and SD will be your friends. Compare the 6.5 rounds to ANY other round...all the way to 458.

I would HIGHLY recommend a 6.5x55. Easy on the shoulder and hard hitting on the other end.

[Arizona Hunter]

When I first got into big game hunting, my favorite writer was Finn Aagaard. He was a firm believer in bullets that produce exit wounds-and typically that means premium bullets.

Even though I've cleanly taken deer with the old Core Lokt, for the past 10 years or so I've used a premium on everything (Even Javelina; Those stout bullets zip right through). My 30.06 shoots Barnes 180 XLC's so well I just use them on everything. They always penetrate and still expand well, can't ask for better. Oh, and of course, shot placement is critical, because even a .460 WBY in the rear will leave you with a very long tracking job.

[Rick in Oregon]

acloco: You have a very valid point there with the 6.5x55. My good friend, Chub Eastman (Rifle editor at Outdoor Life & neighbor) goes to Sweden often as a guest of Norma. They hunt moose there with a passion, albeit very small moose by our North American standards, but moose nonetheless. Their most-used caliber is.......you guessed it, the 6.5x55.

As has been noted above by AZ Hunter, they key here is premium bullets that exit every time. From my experience, the best bullet out there at this time is the Barnes Triple Shock X-Bullet, and right behind is the Nosler Partition, Accubond and Fail Safe (in no particular order). I can't comment on the other premium bullets, as I have not personally used them.

When hunting large game such as moose and bull elk, we all need to keep in mind that bullet choice is critical to the outcome of the hunt. Just refer to my "still learning" nephew at the onset of this thread. "I guess I'll just have to pony up and spend the money" was his most recent statement in that regard. He's learning.......

[Arizona Hunter]

Rick in OR,

Good point about your nephew having to "pony up" for superior bullets. In the long run he will of course see that the cost of cartridges is small in relation to the overall hunt-or loosing a wounded animal due to poor penetration.

BTW, I also have a 6.5 x 55. Its a 1942 Husqvarna. So far I've only used it only two javalina and two coyotes. But if my 30.06 ever has a problem, I know I can count on the Swede as a fine backup even for elk. At least as long as I can put a Barnes into a vital area.

[Rick in Oregon]

AZHunter: I hope you get a chance to cozy up to your 6.5x55 Swede, we both know you'll be pleased. Many LR competition shooters have picked up on the caliber lately too, as the ballistics are excellent, and the recoil does not wear down the shooter during a 60-round match.

Lest you all think my nephew mentioned above is a complete dolt, here's a shot of him two years ago with his first branch antlered bull elk. He used the same rifle and load, but was offered a perfect broadside shot at 40 yards in the timber.



The thing I've come to realize about this subject, is to use a caliber and bullet combination that will reach the vitals of a large bull FROM THE WORST POSSIBLE ANGLE PRESENTED BY THE ELK. This can mean a quartering away shot, when you have to penetrate about 3'-4' of digested grass mulch, muscle and fat, in order to reach the pump-room. Something to think about. It boils down to horsepower and penetration. A nice large hole going in and out doesn't hurt either.

[acloco]

Rick - so...are you thinking howitzer with a Barnes bullet?

Trust me...I know what you are saying.

Prepare for the worst and hope for the best.

[bullfrog]

Nice pic of the nephew RIO. We've all been there. Hunting never goes perfectly, but discussing it and visualizing scenarios helps us all be better hunters. I'm glad you shared his story. It's a good reminder. Besides, it's tough to even think straight when you see a big bull. Buck fever ain't nothin compared to bull fever.

[Rick in Oregon]

acloco: Maybe not a 155mm howitzer, but a Barnes 210gr TSX from my M70 .338-06 Ackley always seems to do the trick. I've got some of their new tipped TSX's on the way, and I'm very eager to put them to the test in both my .338's. Your "prepare for the worst" comment could not be more true when it comes to big bulls either. Hunting on public land, you want to anchor him on the spot before he runs to someone else in the next drainage. (I'm now coating some 210 TSX's with WS2...will comment later on performance)

bullfrog: Right on bud, with the 'bull-fever' comment....let's face it, when you see him, you're going to take the shot, no matter what, as he won't be there for very long as we both know. Elk are amazing at how fast they can take one leap and be in the next zip code and out of your sight picture!

The late Bob Hagel wrote the best piece I've ever read on this subject in Rifle Magazine years ago. It was published again by Wolfe Publishing in his book titled "Guns, Loads and Hunting Tips". The book is the best I've ever read on hunting, and covers the very subject of this thread completely.

The bull below was preparing to bail from his bed, and the only view I had of him was his rump. I shot just east of the poop chute at 35 yds with a Nosler 210 Partition, it broke the large hip ball joint, traveled all the way to the opposite front shoulder, broke it, and exited. THAT is horsepower of the first order (just over 3,700 ft/lbs) to penetrate about 4+ ft. of elk end-to-end. You can see the evidence of the shot near the caboose. He did not go far at all: no tracking required. Rifle is my pre-'64 M70 in .338-06 Ackley.

[Ray P]

Great Post! Guys!......Use enough GUN!
RIO..........Way to go with your 338-06 Imp.
I'm a fond beliver in the .338 cal. I was suppose to meet up with a classmate of mine for a bear hunt in Alaska. Sorry never made it, work got in the way. But the out come was new Ruger 77 in 338 WinMag. Stopping power and an exit hole you can't go wrong.
Great reading thanks to all and good luck hunting this season.
Later
Ray P