SmallCaliberCentral

I was holding out for a nice mature 4x4 mulie buck this year, but on the way back up the mountain to the truck on the last couple hours of my 2007 season, from a hillside, I spotted a doe acting funny about 450 yards away out in the junipers. I figured she had a buck with her, and after a stalk into the trees, a young buck bolted uphill through the junipers, giving me a 95 yard running shot.

The 120gr Ballistic Tip (120gr BT. WS2 coated, 48grs Varget, Fed 210M = 3400 fps) broke his back and achored in immediately from my Prairie Gun Works custom titanium 7mm-08 Ackley Improved (24" Galliard stainless barrel, fluted, Tuff-Coated black - 100% Made in Canada). Scope is a custom Leupold 2.5-8X with Mil-Dot reticle and target elevation adjustment for long range work.....that I had hoped for..... Meat in the freezer, but no nice trophy this year. You can't eat antlers anyway.

Here's the obligatory hero shot of the event:



Not great headgear, but a nice young buck for the table:



I hope all of you had a good deer season this year!

A tasty looking critter indeed! Congrats.

That will fit nicely in the freezer.

Good going Rick young and tender. You never know how the hunt will go. Nice looking rifle.

All that matters in the hunt is that you had a good time!

How do you like your 7mm-08? Would you consider it enough gun for elk?

Brian - Yeppers, a good time was had. It would have been a great hunt even if I'd have come home 'meatless'. The fact that meat did come home however, is just a bonus.

On the 7mm-08 for elk:
Using off the shelf factory ammo with 'standard' bullets of say, 140 grains, it would be considered marginal for large bulls. HOWEVER.....all that changes if you use a good handload and Barnes Triple Shock Bullets, as even out of a standard 7-08 (not the improved version like mine), complete penetration is about guaranteed from even a quartering shot.

I've shot Nosler Partitions for many years in calibers from 7mm to .338, and consider them excellent elk bullets. But the Barnes TSX has to be used to fully appreciate just how excellent they are. A caliber like the 7-08, .270 Win, 7x57 become full-fledged elk rifles using this bullet. About 100% weight retention, complete penetration leaving two holes to let out a lot of blood, and let air in, and leaving a good blood trail if the animal is not anchored on the spot. I'm a true believer in them, and that's based on going on 45 years in the bush.

The TSX, and now the new plastic tipped version, along with their MRX, or Maximum Range X-Bullet are the creme of the premium bullet crop for big game, proven in Africa on hundreds of head of plains game. Many PH's prefer their clients to use them I'm told. They are also very accurate, and do not foul barrels like the old versions. Because of the grooves cut into the bullet, you can usually push them a bit faster than lead-core bullets too. I coat mine with WS2 to get a bit more velocity and even less fouling.

So to answer your question in a word: "YES", the 7mm-08 is an elk rifle/caliber using those bullets in 140gr weight. Go for it Brian!

Rick:

That is good news. I used my .270 WSM this year to take my first branch-antlered bull. I was also shooting a TSX bullet.

My first shot hit just behind the shoulder and exited. The other hit a little high in the shoulder, passing through the first shoulder blade and then breaking the second shoulder. We found it half way through the skin on the far side. I cleaned it off and weighed it. After I shot it, the 130 gr. bullet weighed 129.8 grains and expanded to a beautiful mushroom with a width of .58" at it widest point. Both bullets caused major damage and trauma. This is the first time I have used these bullets and personally, I think they are a little expensive. But I must admit that they seem to do exactly what Barnes claims.

My friends think that my quest for the best, all-around caliber is strange. I like short actions and so far, I think the .284 Win is about the closest thing to the perfect round for North America. But no one makes rifles in that caliber any more and it's a shame. However, the 7mm-08 is a close second. It gives up a little in velocity but probably not enough to really matter.

My .270 WSM is ideal ballistically. But feeding a round from the magazine to the chamber can be described as rough, at best. My little .243 feeds like butter in comparison and the 7mm-08 should be just as smooth. I won't ever get rid of my WSM because it has been my companion on too many successful hunts. But it does jam on occasion and I can't help but wonder if there is a better alternative out there.

Brian: It sounds like your Barnes experiences mirror my own. Expensive, yes, but quality usually is. When you consider the cost of an elk hunt, either a resident or out of state hunt, the cost of the bullet(s) is almost negligable, and possibly the most important component in the entire equation.

As for the 7-08, and your affection for the .243 Win, consider this: as they are both on the same case (.308 Win), both feed like butter in most actions. Ballistically, the seven has a huge advantage over the 6mm when game bullets in each caliber are considered. Trajectory for the seven is pretty impressive for practical hunting ranges. I practice with mine out in the open desert here out to 600 yards, and feel confident at that range. The .243 in standard twist hunting rifles is flat out of energy at that range to anchor a big mulie, let alone an elk, but we normally don't shoot those animals that far away anyway, but the seven has a real advantage in bullet weight at all practical hunting ranges.



Above is the 7mm-08 Ackley Improved beside the venerable .270 Winchester. Amazing performance from the seven, considering the size of the case.

If you're considering a 7-08 for a general big game rifle, I think you'll find it capable of about everything you'd ask of it. It gets poo-pooed by the young crowd these days, along with the 308 Win, as they all think they need Ultra Mags. Funny, as I've (along with all our forefathers) been killing deer and elk for all my years with nothing larger than my .338-06 Ackley, .30-06, and .270 Win, and don't have a sore shoulder, flinch, or hearing loss either. I think we all went through the "faster, better, newer" syndrome when we were in our 20's and 30's. Interesting how we come back to basics as we age a bit.

If you've got a hankering for something different on a short action, consider the .270 Redding. In reality, it's just a 308 case necked to .270, and uses any .277" bullet. A bit flatter shooting than the 7-08, but not much. There is a huge selection of 7mm bullets out there compared to the .270, but excellent choices in either caliber as we've been discussing. Redding offers dies for the .270 Redding. Or.....you could go the route I did, and build a 7mm-08 Ackley. Mine shoots the 120gr Barnes or Nosler to an honest 3,400 fps, and that is a flat shooting round! It duplicates my .270 Win with TEN grains LESS powder, in a lighter rifle with a short action to boot. The improved 7-08 will give you an honest extra 200 fps more in most bullet weights. It is very efficient, and one of P.O. Ackley's darlings. He comments in his books that it is about the perfect case capacity for the 7mm bore.

Enough rambling....if I can offer any assistance in regard to loads of chrono data to help you decide, you only need to ask. Good luck with the quest.

Rick, Nice goin on the buck. A little dissapointed you weren't shootin the model 70 .270 win. but great shootin none the less.
Also, agree completely with your point on ultra mags. I talked to a butcher a while back who was noticing a lot more damage to the meat from the "shock" of some of the new cartidges out there. I'm all for flat shooting, but I don't think you NEED a cannon to kill a 150 pound deer.

A fine looking young buck Rick!

Congrats. Nice rifle too...

Thanks Guy, he's a tender 'lil boy, and a decent amount of marble in the meat too. He seemed to have had a decent diet.

That Prairie Gun Works Mdl 15 Ti shoots too. It loves the 120gr Nosler BT as shown in the below pics, am now working on a load for the new Barnex Tipped Triple Shocks, also WS2 coated. For a light sheep/mountain rifle, it shoots as good as some varmint weight rifles I've owned.



I wish all my big game rifles shot this well....

Congrads RIO on meat in the freezer! Nice shootin too one shot one animal. Of corse it won't have happened if you weren't shootin a quality rifle.
When I got my No.1 s/s in 300wm I got a sister in 7 rem mag still in the box. It will be a graduation gift for my son when he finishes college.
Please be safe in the great outdoors and congrads again.
Later
Ray P

Ray: Thanks bud, appreciate it. You probably know I too love the Ruger No.1's...and as a graduation gift?..... Wow, way to go dad! I hope your son makes you proud with the seven.

If all goes well next big game season, we'll be watching for the story and photos from you both!