SmallCaliberCentral

Hi guys, I'm new to the forum and I'm hoping you all can help me. I recently purchased a Savage FV12 in 204 Ruger as I want to get into varmint hunting. I live in Idaho and will mostly hunt coyotes and rock chucks with it and maybe prairie dogs. I've tried to use the search function to research as much as I could about the right scope to put on it, but it seems the more I try to research about it, the more confused I get. Nontheless, I think this is what I have learned from my reading: The two most recommended brands are of course, Leupold and then Nightforce. I've concluded that I most likely want the lower magnification to be around 4-6x, since I'll be going after coyotes... probably lean closer to the 4x, right? And, around 15-16x would be ok for the higher magnification, yes/no?

My concerns/naiveness/dumb lack of knowledge is this:

1. Would it be an overkill to have a Nightforce 3.5-15 x 50 on my wee little .204?
2. What is the true lethal range for a p-dog/rock chuck with my .204? I ask because it seems some of the scopes I've looked at appear to be geared for really long ranges. So, I guess that's just another way of asking question #1 above. Others have said, "If you can see it, you can kill it". So, would a pricey scope help me see more, and thus hit more?
3. If I were to go with the Loopy VX3, would a 40 mm objective be sufficient, or would I notice a big improvement with the 50mm?
4. The varmint reticle looks to fit the bill for the VX3, what would be a recommended reticle for the NF?
5. I understand that the Sightron SIII is getting good reviews, but their prices are right up there with the VX3, so why would I want to consider the SIII over the VX3?

I apologize for all the questions. But, I want to get the best bang for my buck, but I don't want an unnecessarily too big of a bang.

You will be more than happy with the nightforce or leupy vxIII. I have a Leupy VxIII 4.5X14X50 on my 204 and love it. (Varmint Hunters Reticle) You wont have to spend the money for the Nightforce to be happy although they are sweet. My leupy does great in low light conditions, although for night hunting the VH R is almost too fine of a crosshair for too much night hunting. The BC reticle is better for night hunting. If you hunt a lot in dusk conditions the 50mm is better and the field of view is larger. (always my personal choice but not everyones. If your scope goes down to 6 power you will be fine for coyotes. My opinion is that if 6 power is too high, you should be using a shotgun for those close woodsy coyote shots. For Prairie Dogs the more power the better although you wont always be able to use 20X etc because of the mirage. The practical range for the 204 is 500 yards although some have made longer shots. After 500 yards the 204 drops off sharply ballistically and the wind will have its way with the bullet. Just my thots and experiences. You seem to be on the right track with your research.

I highly recommend the Zeiss conquest 6.5-20x50. I have 2 of them and they are great. The light gathering is superb. Way better than my Leupy competition model. Buy a demo model from cameralandny.com.

The longest confirmed hits on Prairie dogs with my Savage were in the 600 yard range, not much wind to deal with. Scope was a 4.5-14X40 w/VHR. With a 200 yard zero the first line below center is 370 yards, second is 460 yards, third is 550 yards. I shoot a 39gr bullet at almost 3900fps. I also have higher powered scopes, but I usually only crank them up when shooting paper targets for load testing. Everybody has different ideas and tastes for performance rifles, but I love my combo.

I second the Zeiss Conquest suggestion. I've now got a 4.5-14x44, with Rapid Z 800 reticle, on my AR 204. I am firmly in the clarity-first camp.

Longest p-dog shot with that rig, which favors a 39gr. BK at 3800+, was 507 yards in a cold, early-spring Wyoming wind. The dog was flipped in the air a good 3 feet. The longest coyote shot with it was 561 yards on a warm, calm, late-spring Utah morning. Hit just behind the heart, she ran about 20 yards before tipping over. For long range with the 204, the 39 BK works best for me.

As mentioned (and all things being equal) a 50mm scope has better light transmission when the sky darkens. If your're shooting when the light is really dim I would consider a Swarovski, they have better glass and light transmission than either the Leupold or Zeiss Conquest plus they're available with some pretty wide zoom ranges as well, i.e. (5x-25x). They cost more (closer to a Nightforce) than the Leupold and Zeiss but eitherway with either scope (Zeiss, Leupold or NightForce) you'll be happy. Never looked thru a Sightron so I can't offer anything with them.

Thanks for all the info so far. It's nice to find a forum where people are kind and helpful. We have Zeiss microscopes in the O.R. where I work for looking at ear canals, eyes, etc. You guys can only guess how much one of those buggers cost!

I really appreciate the scope recommendations and the effective ranges you guys have been able to obtain. Looks like in addition to whichever scope I go with, I'll have to pick up some 39g Sierra BKs. As for the scopes, I looked at a buddy's Nightforce tonight... it's nice, but I just don't think I need to spend that much on a scope, so it's outta of the question. So, seems to be basically between a Zeiss and a VX3. I'll go with a 50mm objective because I will be frequently using it at dusk/dawn. Does anyone have any firsthand experience with each brand's varmint reticle? One better than the other? Would you guys lean more toward the 4.5-14x50 or the 6.5-20x50?

Oh, and thanks for the sample/demo list addresses, I'll be watching them closely to see if one comes across that I like. Maybe that's what it'll come down to, which one can I find a good deal on first? Thanks again for all the help, I really appreciate it.

All the scopes discussed would work.The nightforce is very heavy with a 56mm objective.I have a Leupy VX3 6.5-20x40 with Varmint reticle,which is one of the best out there.That scope will give you almost as much light as the eye can take in ,ie 7mm exit pupil.The reticle will be your main decision,in any of the scopes in question.The conquest has a fine varmint reticle as well.There are two reticles I would have to deside in the Nightforce.You might want to consider an illuminated reticle if you plan much night or low light shooting.Having said that,my next scope will be a VX3 4.5-14x50mm ,varmint reticle or dot,with a M1 elevation turret.

Good to know about the reticles. I need to find out for sure if an illuminated reticle is legal to hunt varmints with in Idaho, I keep hearing different things. On the Leupold, I would also like an M1 elevation turret. Is there an M1 turret available for the Zeiss? Also, does either brand offer a zero stop function with their elevation? I have tried to find out but every website seems to give the rather non-specific generic scope info.

The Leupold's all have rotation hash-marks on the M1 elevation turret so you can keep track of rotation. But in all reality, you'll never ever make a full elevation turn when shooting a 204....the round doesn't have enough range to fully make a full revolution of my M1 dials possible, so no worry there, bud.

My "come-up" chart in MOA on my Sako M75V in 204 for both the 32 and 39 SBK.....all the way to 600 yards, and still not even one full rotation of the M1 dial.



This shows the rotation hash-marks on the M1 turret (Cooper M38 20 Vartarg):



Don't know about the Zeiss though......excellent glass, no one would argue that, just never used one so cannot comment. One thing to consider is Leupold's new FireFly reticle....a small illuminated dot in the center of the crosshairs.....may be ideal for low light conditions. I'll mention that although a 50mm objective will allow a slight amount of light advantage (dusk/dawn), they require higher mounting over the bore, and in 40+ years of both hunting and sniping varmints, I've never NOT been able to make the shot because I had a 40mm objective. Heck, my Leupold VX3 1.5-5X on my .338-06AI M70 elk rifle has a 21mm objective, and I've killed bulls in black timber at dusk using it! Do you really NEED a 56mm objective to shoot varmints? None of the varmints I shoot require one........

RiO,

You bring up a good point about the objective diameter, I'll have to crunch/compare the numbers a little more for the different objectives and light gathering. Observing your "come up" chart, is that bullet drop in inches or the number of "clicks" that you need to turn the turret for the given yardage? I knew the .204 is a flat shooter, that's one of the reasons why I wanted one. I'm just really green when it comes to optics. The only scope I have ever used is a 3x9 on a 30-06. Even then, that scope was an overkill as the two deer I have shot were both "close" shots, 13 yards and 34 yards. I'm thinking my prairie dogs will be a little farther out than that

Thanks again guys for the help.

sharp: All those numbers are MOA values (made with my ballistics program for my load). As all my Leupold scopes are marked in 1/4" click marks, it roughly translates into pretty much even values (numbers on turret = MOA values). Example, all my scopes are 'zero' at 100 yards. If my laser rangefinder tells me my target is say around 350 yards, I glance at my chart for 350 yds, see what the 'come-up' is, and dial that exact number (3.0 in this case, using the 32gr) into my elevation turret, allow for wind, hold dead-on and shoot.

In use, the system almost guarantees first shot hit probability if you've made the chart properly, and are using the combination of rifle/load/chart in the environment it was intended to be used. There are other, much more complicated ways to make a hit on a small target at extended range, but this is what has worked well for me for a long time on rifles in calibers from 17 Ackley Hornet, all the way to my hunting rifle calibers. It extendes your practical range (with practice) out past 'normal' hunting ranges when used properly, or you can simply set your scope to your 200 yard zero and use the Varmint Hunter Reticle for times when it's impractical to dial for every shot in a target-rich environment. (Either way, you can use the windage hash marks on the VHR for the range you're shooting.) It's nice to have choices.

Sharptailhunter.......I outfittered two of my new Savage model 12 rifles with Bushnell Tactical 3200 series scopes in the 5 X 15 power, with adj AO, mil-dot recticles and turrets.
The wife uses Leupold in the 4 x 12 power with adj AO only! on her Savage .204 model 12 stainless with fluted barrel. Those crosshairs are fine for picking up those small critters down youndar way.

I have Zeiss optics on both my .204's. 6.5-20x50, and 4.5-14x44. My opinion is its the better scope for less. (800-1100 price range) Perfect glass for less than the NF/Leupy. Both are great and the longest confirmed shot I made with the .204 on a pdog was 628 yds. Best bang for the buck!

Hey guys,

Thanks again for the replies. I have been crazy busy at work and haven't had much time for the www. Nonetheless, I was able to look through a few different scopes. I really liked the Zeiss. I think I'm leaning towards the Conquest 6.5-20x50. I've been watching the Sample List and other websites to see if I could shave a few $ off the price. I've also been "tweeking" my rifle a little I hope to have some pictures up later this week, so stay tuned... in a little while that is.