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Optics comparisons
Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 10:52 pm
by surfclod
I seen this on another site and thought I would share it here as well.
Personally I would have liked to be able to compare various brands of scopes but as each brand has varying levels of quality it is pretty hard to get a good comparison. Then when certain models go on sale it throws in another variable.
While it may not be a quantitative scientific test, the folks at SWFA certainly deal with more optics than most people so this list should be worth taking seriously.
The scale below was formed by SWFA sales staff, customer service, pro-staff and owners using personal experience, customer input and facts supplied by the manufacturers. The ranking system is based on the following criteria.
51% Optical Quality - How bright and clear the scope is.
15% Specifications - Field of view, eye relief, weight, adjustment travel, etc.
15% Durability - How do they with stand the test of time.
12% Special Features & Options - Proprietary items (reticles, design, turrets), Zoom ratio.
7% Warranty & Customer Service - How good are they.
0% Value - Bang for your buck. This criteria has been removed due to O.T. member input.
In order to maintain the scale's simplicity we are not listing every single manufacture and only major manufactures will have several of their brands listed. This scale also does not have discontinued brands or products like the old U.S.A. made Redfields, Japan Tasco or Japan Simmons Aetec. This scale is heavily weighted toward HUNTING as being the application the scope will be used for.
This scale will be kept current with changes that the manufacturers are making that affect their rank. Many of the lower end companies have been bought and sold a lot recently and while the names have stayed the same......the product has not.
2009 Riflescope Rating Scale
Leica ER, Swarovski Z6, Zeiss Victory
Kahles C - CL & CSX, Premier Reticle, Schmidt & Bender
Kahles KX, U.S. Optics, Swarovski PH & American Lightweight
Bushnell Elite 6500, Leupold VX-7, Nightforce NXS, IOR Valdada, Vortex Razor
Bushnell Elite 4200, Leupold VX-3, Nikon Monarch & Monarch X, Zeiss Conquest
Leupold Mark 4 VX III & VX-L, Meopta, Nikon Monarch Gold & Titanium, Sightron SIII & S2 Big Sky, Vortex Viper
Burris Black Diamond Signature Select XTR & Euro Diamond, Pentax Lightseeker, Trijicon Accupoint, Weaver Grand Slam
Bushnell Elite 3200, Leupold VX-II, Millet Tactical/Buck Gold, Nikko Stirling, Nikon Buckmaster, Sightron SI & SII, Vortex Crossfire & Diamondback, Super Sniper Fixed
Burris Fullfield II & Timberline, Leupold Rifleman & VX-I, Leatherwood, Mueller, Nikon ProStaff, Simmons
Barska, Sightmark, Swift, Truglo
BSA, Tasco, Yukon
ATN, Leapers, NcStar
This is a work in progress and continuously changing, please discuss your opinions, ask questions and make suggestions HERE. This post will be updated as the scale changes and the fact that it is in the F.A.Q. section allows it to be easily accessed at any time and also restricts any posts from being added to it.
http://www.opticstalk.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=8185
Re: Optics comparisons
Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 6:32 pm
by Jim White
There is some interesting discussions over there about this. The one I think warrants a higher % is durability. 15%....
Jim
Re: Optics comparisons
Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 5:34 am
by okbob51
I wonder if it was influenced by the brands that they sell?
Re: Optics comparisons
Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 5:49 pm
by Jim White
The don't sell Night Force but the sell a lot of differnt brands and they're good people to work with too.
Jim
Re: Optics comparisons
Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 9:44 pm
by heitmann13
Correct me if i'm wrong but I believe the only label that SWFA makes is the Super Snipers, it's a pretty straight forward system they put together over there. But, it does change a little from year to year.
Re: Optics comparisons
Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 1:20 pm
by Jim White
I don't know what they make, if any but the do carry a good selection.
Re: Optics comparisons
Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 8:39 am
by TONK
Surfclod......It sometimes can be very trying to actually compare rifle scopes or even Bino's to one an other!
I do business with a couple of stores that will let you take the rifle scope, (2 at a time) outside the store and look far off on the hillside in order to compare, Sharpness, Brightness, Focus etc.
I have hunted in a lot of places and have never found the need to purchase a $1,500 dollar rifle scope in order to place my bullet in the vital zone. Now recently I did purchase 4 new rifle scopes for varmint/predator rifles and I went with Bushnell because they were right there with what I was looking for in a scope. MONEY did play a part of my decision you betcha. I got as much rifle scope as possible with the things I wanted on that scope.
Those things included Mil-Dots, AO, Turrets, power adj. above 12 and the Bushnell Elite 3200 Tactical gave that to me in a rifle scope for less than $400 dollars per scope. Leupold wanted something like $600 per scope. I was indeed very satisfied when looking with my eyes through the scope. The warranty on Bushnell is a good one. I personally see no need for spending $1,500 dollars on a rifle scope, to shoot P-dogs down range, it just is not needed to get the job done.
Re: Optics comparisons
Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 9:27 pm
by Critter
I am pleased to see US Optics mentioned and in some very good company.
Most people have never seen one. Here are a couple of examples:
SN-3 1.8-10x44 and SN-12 3.5x
Re: Optics comparisons
Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 8:21 am
by Rick in Oregon
Dave: The reason you don't see much in the way of US Optics here, is that most can't afford such quality glass. You don't see much Schmidt & Bender or Swro either. That glass can be as much as four times the price of the rifle. You can purchase a truck load of Nikon Buckmasters or Bushy Elite's for the price of one USO.
Considering the price, I'm also surprised to see so much Nightforce on various forums, as like USO, very spendy. The upside is......you usually still get what you pay for. Usually......
Re: Optics comparisons
Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 5:42 pm
by Jim White
I just purchased a Swarovski that was heavily discounted. Yes, it's clearer than my VX3 but (not that much more than my Zeiss Conquest) but it cost about 30-40% more too. In my case, it was cheaper than the Leupold VX-3 6.5-20x50 so I decided to give one a try.
If clarity is the overriding factor, for the money a Leupold VX-3 is tough to beat, IMO. I'm not very familier with the Bushnell, Nightforce, USO or IOR lines.
HTH,
Re: Optics comparisons
Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 1:27 am
by Critter
Jim White wrote: I'm not very familier with the Bushnell, Nightforce, USO or IOR lines.
HTH,
The following are not my words, but who am I to disagree. It amazes me how so many qualified individuals can look at the same art and come up with different conclusions. I personally don't have a dog in the fight as my personal target rifle looks like the one on the bottom. Here are a couple of interesting quotes:
The scope for the final issue has not been decided. The rifles in the field have the M40A1 Scope on top. After talking to the designers and end users it appears the options are down to a choice between a variable power day scope and a day night scope called the PVNS 10. Talking with USMC Sniper Schools at Camp Pendleton CA the PVNS10 Day/Night Scope is well liked followed closely by a US Optics Variable 1.8-10x44mm, 30mm tube with M40A1 BDC System Scope. Tests of the PVNS-10 were done with mixed feelings. It was a fair day scope and a good night scope. Daytime optics is not close to the quality of the US Optics Variable, mentioned above, that was also tested.
Those
cRaZy gUys wanted to put the same knob on the SN-3 as is on the Unertl Day Scope currently issued.
We tested the US Optics SN3 Variable 1.8-10x44 and found it tough and the clearest lenses tested to date. This scope is adjustable for parallax. The parallax adjustment is on the front objective. At first I thought this would be a problem but found with the scope's size and the position of the adjustment it was no more cumbersome to adjust than the side parallax adjustment models currently the rage. It is easy to do without changing your position or losing your site picture/cheek weld. The knob/BDC system used works, looks and adjusts like the original M40A1 scopes do. You either love it or hate it. Years of crawling, with sniper rifles has taught me to keep things simple and tough. This system is simple, durable and easy to use. It is caliber specific but just plain works well.
I think they ended up buying the S&B, if memory serves.
Re: Optics comparisons
Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 8:42 am
by Guy M
A few years ago Critter generously allowed me to put one of his USO scopes to an operational test. For about six months, I used his SN3 on my SWAT duty rifle. During that time the rifle was used in training and on operations in rural and urban areas. One brutal and unplanned test occurred when the team was hiking out of a remote, rugged location and I managed to fall, losing my grip on the rifle. Rifle and scope crashed to the rocks... I was not happy.
The very next morning I headed to the range with it, sure that the "zero" would be off. Not the case, it hadn't moved at all.
Shortly after confirming the zero, the rifle was out on another operation. Eventually Critter got his scope back. I came away with quite an appreciation for the big USO scope. Superb optics and tremendous reliability, even in harsh conditions. Here's a photo of the rifle/scope combo on a nasty winter day in the Cascades:
And on a much nicer day at the training range:
USO builds quite a scope!
Re: Optics comparisons
Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 8:54 am
by Guy M
Typically on my duty rifle, I use a 4.5-14x Leupold, which has been a good scope. Believe I've been using it for about 12 - 13 years or so. The windage adjustment failed twice on it in early years. Both times Leupold repaired it for free and had it back to me in a week or so. Great service.
On my hunting rifles, my absolute favorite all-around scope is this fixed 6x Leupold. Adjustments are positive. Optics are excellent. Low light performance is very good. Eye relief and "eye box" are huge. Very easy scope to use. Picked it up a few years ago and have used it on varmint hunts, coyote hunts and mule deer hunts. Farthest deer kill with it was in Nov 2009 with a 400 yard shot dropping a mulie doe. Never felt handicapped by the mere 6x magnification at close or longer ranges.
Regards, Guy
Re: Optics comparisons
Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 4:13 pm
by Jim White
Critter wrote:Jim White wrote: I'm not very familier with the Bushnell, Nightforce, USO or IOR lines.
HTH,
It amazes me how so many qualified individuals can look at the same art and come up with different conclusions. I personally don't have a dog in the fight as my personal target rifle looks like the one on the bottom. Here are a couple of interesting quotes:
Critter,
I hear ya'. On the SWFA forum I find it hard to decipher whats posted because there are more inputs. IOR is product they sell and I believe its out of Romania. Either way, they get some high praises. Nightforce is also in that group and I don't ever recall of anyone saying anything negative about USO. Some complain about the price but, performance cost money.
Regarding Bushnell's, I've only looked at the 4200 in the store, hardly making that worthy of writing an opinion. Yep, I've looked through Nightforce & USP too, just briefly, in broad daylight, that too hardly worth of an opinion from me.
On the Zeiss Conquest, Leupold VX-3 and VARI-X-III, Nikon Monarch (SF & AO models) & Buckmaster (AO model) and a Burris FFII I use them enough to report what "I" see. Haven't really looked to hard at the Swarovski just yet, although my son, daughter & wife did a comparison the other night areond 11 PM but I'll get around to it.
At the end of the day though, what one sees optically may be different than what you or I would see. Nice looking rig you have there.
Cheers,