SmallCaliberCentral

A friend picked up a Model 38 Cooper in 218 Mashburn Bee and needs some start load information. I have never played with the caliber, so other than googling up some info, can not aid him much. Anyone, can you offer a couple start loads and bullets that he can start with ? I will pass it onto him, as he has yet to join the site. Thank You. Bill K

Couldn't you just start with 218 Bee loads and work up?

Bill, post that question over on Saubier, there's a bunch of Bee shooters there that are sure to help.

Thanks Rick.. I have it posted in a couple places and have been getting some email response to pass on. I also googled and told Adam to do so, and we/he are getting info.
Then this morning I had a email from Hodgdon and they are now listing 218 be loads with CFE BLK, so there is another avenue. Thanks for the info, etc. Bill K

Bill K, I"m finally a member here!!! Thanks for posting the question for me last night. I like the sounds of CFE BLK in the 218 Mashburn Bee. That will be best bet for velocity. I firedformed 50 pcs of brass today. Blew the shoulders out on 4 pcs. Wasn't too happy about that. But now I at least have something to play around with this week. I haven't been on the computer all day. You may have emailed me already but if not I will patiently wait. Thanks again!

I just checked out Hodgdon Website. It looks like CFE BLK and H4198 are at or near a compressed load. Pressures still seem pretty low. I'd be willing to bet that with the added capacity of the Mashburn Bee I could get a few more grains in the case with little to no change in pressures and push the bullet faster! I guess I'll start out around the top load of the regular Bee and work up until I see pressure signs. I bet RL-7 would be a good powder as well. So far that is what my 20 VT's and 17AH love. May have to start to buy stock in that stuff!

Rick in Oregon wrote: ↑Sat Jul 13, 2019 8:40 am Bill, post that question over on Saubier, there's a bunch of Bee shooters there that are sure to help.

Rick, just wanted to tell you that I am LOVING the Ruger with the Lilja 17HMR barrel I got from you!!!! It down right shoots!!!! I've now got over 1,000 rounds stock piled for it

I just checked the Hodgdon site. I've been using Lil' Gun in my 218 Bee and really like it but I might have to try that CFE BLK. Good velocity for such a small case.

Hey, glad you signed on.. Now watch your wallet. Bill K

I have the same rifle and a lot of data and fire forming experience - btw not all is good experience...
First Google is your friend. I found most everything by searching. I do have P.O. Ackleys book which gives some data and a magazine article on the round.
I have used 25-20 Winchester brass (Winchester is important as there is another 25-20 single shot cartridge) This is the parent case for 218 bee. The necks wind up pretty short but I get less cracked shoulders. They hold more powder than the blown out 218s but velocity isn't as good. I don't understand it but...
You neck the 25 down to 22 just far enough to form a false shoulder - tight fit gives less cracked shoulders apparently.
Currently I can't find 25-20 available.
With 218 brass I get a fair number of cracked shoulders. I read on the Internet to neck the 218 up to 6mm and back down to 22 to form the false shoulder as above. Some say to Anneal others say don't bother. The info said you will get less cracks.
I am off to church but I will post data this afternoon. I have different powders, brass, and bullets and some got pretty high pressure so I want to be very careful on what I post...

20VarTarg wrote: ↑Sat Jul 13, 2019 7:18 pmRick, just wanted to tell you that I am LOVING the Ruger with the Lilja 17HMR barrel I got from you!!!! It down right shoots!!!! I've now got over 1,000 rounds stock piled for it

Glad that rifle is working for you. As I mentioned, it has accounted for countless ground squirrels and a few rock chucks with both barrels (22WMR/17HMR), but it really comes into it's own with that Lilja HMR barrel. Enjoy, but we need pics man, pics!

Obviously, work up to these loads. This is what works in MY rifle. Don't use 218 bee brass where I call for 25-20 brass...
I had the best results fireforming with 25-20 WCF RP brass as described in my previous post.
With 25-20 brass I use 12.7gr of IMR 4227, WSR, and a sierra 50gr bullet (1340); oal 1.815; v = 2497.
For 218 bee brass I used max load data for 218 Bee. Flat base bullets with 4227 seem to have less split cases.

My best load after fireforming is: 25-20 brass; WSR primer, 17.5 gr of H4198; with 50gr vmax (OAL=1.888) or bergers (OAL=1.867). V = 3020fps.
218 bee brass does not hold as much as 25-20 brass (at least that is what I found) so back off the load - I use 17.2 of H4198 with 218 bee brass.

Bmash wrote: ↑Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:15 pm Obviously, work up to these loads. This is what works in MY rifle. Don't use 218 bee brass where I call for 25-20 brass...
I had the best results fireforming with 25-20 WCF RP brass as described in my previous post.
With 25-20 brass I use 12.7gr of IMR 4227, WSR, and a sierra 50gr bullet (1340); oal 1.815; v = 2497.
For 218 bee brass I used max load data for 218 Bee. Flat base bullets with 4227 seem to have less split cases.

My best load after fireforming is: 25-20 brass; WSR primer, 17.5 gr of H4198; with 50gr vmax (OAL=1.888) or bergers (OAL=1.867). V = 3020fps.
218 bee brass does not hold as much as 25-20 brass (at least that is what I found) so back off the load - I use 17.2 of H4198 with 218 bee brass.

Thanks for the info!!! Just curious, what is your rifle? Is it a custom gun or factory chambered. I shot 50 factory 218 Bee rounds through my Cooper Model 38 on Saturday. I blew out 4 shoulders in doing so. I have since annealed the fired brass and ran them through the FL Redding Sizer Die. I ordered some Sierra 40 grain Blitzkings(should be here Friday). I chose that bullet because that is what Cooper has on the factory target and it's one single hole. I did play around with some 35 Grain Nosler Varmageddon bullets today. I barely seated a bullet and it chambered just fine. So I'm thinking it has a long throat. It is a 1-14 twist so the 40's will probably shoot great. Have you played around with CFE BLK or RL-7? So far with every wildcat I own RL-7 is the most accurate. Unfortunately, I can't find any data on RL-7 for the Mashburn.

Mine is also a Cooper. My last name is Mashburn so I just had to have one... I got it in 2007 and the data available then was pretty slim. I have not tried CFE or RL powders yet. When I first started doing load development I got better groups with the 50gr bullets. I do like the idea of lighter and faster, so I may try some CFE and lighter bullets. I get 3/8" groups at 100 with the 50 gr. Since I can't find 25-20 brass I plan to try the method I saw on Saubier of necking up 218 brass and forming a false shoulder. I may join there as Rick in Oregon suggests. Keep us informed of what you develop.

You should certainly join Saubier. Great group of guys over there. That's how I met Bill K and Rick. You and I must be 2 of the weird guys or something because I am really struggling with Data on the 218 Mashburn. Seems like not too many people shoot the 218 Mashburn. Although I've tried Google I haven't found much there either. I'm going to load up some of the 40's with CFE BLK and see how it shoots. I"m gonna start at the regular MAX load Hodgdon lists for the regular 218 Bee. I will keep you posted on how it goes.