Rests for working up loads

[bow shot]

I guess its dawning on me... or perhaps I'm finally slipping out of denial...

Am I a fool to be testing my load recepies on my belly with a Harris in front and a bag in back ?

I note my recoil on every shot. At 300 yards, after the shot, the cross hairs of my scope will 0.5' to 2' off the bull, in the direction of 10:00 to 12:00.

No offense, but I'm not asking for a tutorial in HOW to shoot like this (I've been obsessing and search/researching over this for several years now... free recoil, bipod loading, NPOA, blah blah blah) , I'm just wondering if that is NOT what the big boys do because of the large # of variables? Prehaps an expensive rest set-up is the only wise way?

Wuddyall think?

[Rick in Oregon]

bow shot: I'd say you almost answered your own question. By eliminating as many variables as possible, you'll get closer to the "clinical truth" so to speak. If you shoot prone with a bipod in the field, no problem in testing your loads in the same manner that they'll be used. But make sure the bipod has the same shot-to-shot friction factor; grass, sand, rock, etc., as where the bipod meets Mother Earth consistently will be an important variable to control.

Ideally, all our testing would be from a concrete bench with front rest, rear bag and a real stretch, in a tunnel with no wind, but in the real world, just eliminating as many demons as possible is about all we can do.

Personally, I use one of my BR Pivots locked in the fixed position, a Sinclair All-Purpose front rest w/SuperFeet, and a Protektor No. 13B rear bag for all my testing. It's about as solid as I can get for portable testing purposes, and for fixed-position bench live varmint shooting, makes it literally "BR Varmint Shooting"...... = Big Smiles.



A couple of years ago, some guys both here and over at Saubier did tests to this end, and their findings reflect what I mention above, as well as my own experience FWIW.

(Cooper M38 VR in 20 Vartarg w/Leupold VX3 6.5-20X LR M1 shown)

[bow shot]

Understood Rick, thanks for the comments. I had been sticking to the prone/pod/bag situation because over time it seemed to me (heavy on the "seemed") that my groups were equivalent with that method, compared to bags front and back... and that's how I expected to shoot most often, anyway. But I've always had the doubt in my mind that it was only because my bag situation was not good. I used to use a little rabbit ears for the hind, and a "deep" bag for the front. Using those, I could not get a consistent recoil pattern... tried like heck. Sometimes straight up, sometimes wag to the left, some times an unpredicatble mix of both (when I shoot the 6.5x55, the rifle just about leaps out of the front bag!). I just about drove myself nuts trying for optimal shoulder/pocket placement ...

But now that I'm splitting hairs, and working my groups down in increments of thousandths of an inch, its coming to me that I need to get off the 'pod. But I feel my old bag setup is also variable-frought, not measureably superior to what I can do from the pod.

So, about your setup in the pic...
1) Does that front rest apparatus clamp down on the forend, or is that just a gentle, snuggle, akin to deep in a front bag?
2) Do find that your recoil behavior is consitent, and if so, are you able to define a degree?
3) How do you meet/resist the buttpad during the shot?

[Rick in Oregon]

So, about your setup in the pic...
1) Does that front rest apparatus clamp down on the forend, or is that just a gentle, snuggle, akin to deep in a front bag?
2) Do find that your recoil behavior is consitent, and if so, are you able to define a degree?
3) How do you meet/resist the buttpad during the shot?

Yep, taming the recoil to be consistent for quality/dinky groups can be a task alright.

To try to answer your points above:
1) The front rest has a 'squeeze' bag that is adjusted to just fit the forend being used (it's adjustable for width). The rifle is allowed to recoil straight back in the bags.
2) The recoil behavior is predictably consistent - straight back.
3) I usually put the butt of the stock firmly against my shoulder for all my shooting from the bench, but some like free recoil. That doesn't work for me, as we're usually tracking an active rodent at the other end of the sight picture, so have to keep the rifle close like a part of me (which my wife already sez it is....).

The method you see above is sort of a "modified varmint BR technique" if you will, but seems to be the perfect match for shooting PD's or ground squirrels from the bench all day with a good degree of hit probability every shot.

I'm not saying our method is THE best method, but it's worked for us for a very long time with excellent results. HTH

[bow shot]

Thanks Rick, I think I understand. Now, when you say recoil is straight back, I'm particularly inerested in this: do you see your cross hairs move off the bull after the shot in a certian manner every (ie., most) of the time?

What I'm getting is this: at 300y, when I squeez off a shot, I'll see the cross hairs typically move to 10-11:00, and the deveiation from the bull will be 6" when I'm doing well, and 3' when I'm not.

[bow shot]

I should say that this is what I expect off the 'pod..

[Rick in Oregon]

I see what you're getting at......'yes' the crosshairs do move, about the same every time, usually to about 1:30 - 2:00 off the bull, primarily due to the right hand twist and the torque of the bullet entering the rifling. Off my rest/bag setup, the shift is pretty much predictable every time as far as this is concerned.

[bow shot]

'And about how far off the bull would you say? I'm speaking of .204 of course...

[Rick in Oregon]

Just a guess from memory, but from 100 yards on the target, I'd say the recoil shift as seen through the scope runs around 1.5" - 2" off the bull on the target in most of my 204's.....usually.

About the only way to totall eliminate the shift would be to use a rail gun.........

[bow shot]

Thanks Rick, that helps me a lot. Its valueable to me to know what success should look like, if you know what I mean.

I find it very difficult to get good shooters to give me a figure on that (deviation from the bull). I'm not sure if its because everything is coming together just fine for them, and therefore, "who gives a flip?"

[Rick in Oregon]

You may be making more of an issue on this than necessary. Every rifle will have that torque effect put upon it when fired, and unless it's clamped down solidly or set up in a complete BR setup with powdered bags, it's gonna twist a bit, no matter what. The rifle rest setup of course is what will dictate the amount of 'flip' or torque movement, in addition to ejecta mass, recoil inertia, yadda, yadda..... you know what I mean.

If you're shooting decent groups now off your pod, they could only improve when shot from a solid rest. Good news, right? Now you've got something good to ponder, bud. And you don't need to break the bank for a decent setup either.

[GaCop103]

I found that shooting from a front benchrest and rear rabbit ear bag that I get more consistant recoil (I shoot free recoil with light calibers) if I wax the forearm and rear butt stock. Another solution is the Sinclair teflon tape but I have yet to try that. I wax my stocks using car wax.

Tom

[bow shot]

You're right Rick, I tend to make large issues out of small ones , Iv'e always shot (!) for the pinnacle in things that I've put my hand to... usually I just barely make it to the foothills though, battered and bruised, LOL!

But I am pondering a new rest set up!!

GaCop' when I get my rest put together, I'll try wax or tape, I like the idea. I remember when I first got going with this stuff, I used to let the rifle gently slide back on the bags (not quite a true free recoil) and used to wonder if the big boys did something to perfect that...

[Rick in Oregon]

bow shot: One thing I'll mention in this regard is the use of stock tape over forearm checkering when a front rest w/bag is used. Instead of the pricey stock tape, try the colored automotive electrical tape that's sold in 2" and 3" widths. My Sako Vixen 17 Mach IV has a McMillan stock that's got the "pebble" finish with checkering, and it was really roughing up my bags until I taped the checkering and the toe of the stock with the stuff......problem solved, and it recoils and rides the bags now perfectly.

My Sako Vixen 17 M4 with the black McMillan stock along with my Sako M75 Varmint in 204R. The tape can be seen on the stock where it meets the bags:



One thing I really like about the Cooper varmint stocks....checkering ONLY on the pistol grip, NONE on the forend. They got it right. With their smooth forearms, wax works excellent on those stocks as mentioned by Tom above.

Good luck on the rifle rest project....let us know how it shakes out.

[bow shot]

Understood. I'll post here when I get results from trigger time. I have to blow through some 0x fired brass so I'll be able to do a recoil experiment then. Time is the bottleneck at this point ...