Seat bullets that are not boat tail

[Outlaws]

So I am wondering about my seating method. Everything I have seated until recently has had a boat tail. They just sat nicely on the case and I would throw the press lever and it would seat. But now I am using some 32gr Sierra BKs and they have no boat tail so I seem to be guiding almost every single bullet up to the die with my fingers, then just closing my eyes and hoping for the best.

This is how it works? If the expander ball expanded it further I would think the neck wouldn't have tension to hold the bullet, but at the same time, it just seems odd guiding the bullet up to the die.

[jo191145]

Thats exactly how I do it anyway. I have learned to keep my eyes open though

[skipper]

That is the way to do it. This is why reloaders have pinched finger tips. The die will straighten the bullet before it is seated.

[Rick in Oregon]

Outlaws: Both jo191145 and Skipper are right, assuming you're using 'standard' seating dies. However, if you use the Redding Competition Seater, or the Forester (and maybe the RCBS Comp Seting Die), a sliding sleeve positively aligns the bullet true with the axis of the case, insuring perfect bullet alignment once the fingers have been removed from the equation.

These dies cost more of course, but absolutely align the bullet properly with the case, even if it does not start out straight with "finger alignment" at first. Using these dies (I prefer Redding), will give about zero TIR or close to it (Total Indicated Runout).

[K_Hini]

I have been running into the same problem with the 32gr for my 204.... When you get the entire thing almost to the seater pluug and it clips the side and breaks the polymer tip is a pain in the butt!!!! I learned that if you go slow enough and it does get stuck on the seater if you just spin the case while applying slight pressure it will pop down and you wont have to break the tip!! This gets away from raising and lowering the case to get perfect allignment..

I am not sure if anyone else has these problems I have lee dies and that might just be a problem with them but just a little good to know thing if you do have this problem.

happy shooting
kyle

[Outlaws]

Thanks.

K_Hini, I haven't come across that issue yet.

[remy3424]

Dito on the Lee dies with my 32 grain Vmax pills, I feel your pain!

[futuretrades]

i am using the rcbs competition seating die. these things are the cats meow. as rick in oregon said, these dies have a sleeve in them that aligns the bullet. i chose rcbs because they have a window in the die, above the lock nut. as you raise the shell in the press, the shell raises the sleeve, before it comes up too high, you just drop the bullet into the window, and continue to raise the shell and seat the bullet with no problems. with my big fingers, i have a problem handling those little bullets, so i use the competition dies on my .223 also.

[skipper]

I used to use the RCBS Competition seating die. Mine sits on a shelf collecting dust because it wouldn't seat bullets straight. I could roll the bullets across a table and witness the tip wobbling up and down. I tried everything I knew to get the die to work right. It just wasn't capable of seating bullets straight consistently. If you have one that does, that's a good sign. I liked being able to drop the bullets into the little loading port on the side of the die but, I couldn't accept the performance. If they have their design fixed it would be a nice little die.

futuretrades

Have you checked the run out on some loaded rounds? I would be interested to know how much run out you are measuring.

Here's a picture of the RCBS Competition die.

[futuretrades]

hey skipper, i just checked a run of 35 of my reloads from the same loading session. i found no wobble in these loads. so i started to check for run out. here are my findings. i am checking with a hornady bullet comparator so these lengths will sound a little off.
the shortest i measured was; 1.890. the longest was 1.896. i only had 1 that measured 1.896. don't know what happened here. the measurement of 1.890 was the first bullet i seated, and didn't have my die adjusted to the length i wanted. the majority measured between 1.892 and 1.895. looks like .003 run out. also i was using brand new brass, R-P, that i resized in fl die, and trimmed all to 1.840. using hornady 32 gr. vmax bullets
how long ago did you buy the die? they have a lifetime warranty.
i would call rcbs and let them know of your problem. here is their phone # if you don't have it. its 1-800-533-5000 for customer service. i have found them to be very helpful.
also, looking at your picture, is the locknut set at the right place? i have mine adjusted to just under the open window.
good luck
futuretrades

[skb2706]

Try big hands, .17 cal bullets, flat base, couple hundred at a time after that loading flat base .20 cals will seem like a dream come true. If you think punching .20 cal FB bullets in a .204 case tough try .17 cals in a necked down Hornet case. Back in the day there were few BT bullets of any kind and we just made it work. Inside chamfer, I like the VLD chamfer tool for everything and standard set of dies.

[skipper]

When I was talking about run out, I was talking about the amount the bullet is seated crooked in the case neck. You can see it when you roll a round across a flat surface. You'll need a concentricity gauge to measure it. Here is a picture of the one I use. You just roll the round and watch the gauge. If there is run out the needle will start to move. I also check the case before I start seating. There could be run out between the shoulder and the neck or the shoulder could be out of round. In any case, you want to minimize run out.



I do remember that I had the locking ring set to just under the little loading port, myself. Any higher and it would cover the port and any lower and the bullet wouldn't seat far enough in the case. I think you're doing it right.

I wouldn't bother sending my die back to RCBS. The die just isn't made with close enough tolerances to seat bullets as straight as the Redding or Forster dies. One look at them and you'll see what I mean. For instance, the bottom of the loading port on the RCBS die is conical shaped which doesn't support the bullet very well. The bullet needs to be held in perect alignment with the case. The seating stem has too much slop from side to side. As you start the bullet into the case neck there is just too much of an opportunity for it to get out of alignment. On the other hand the Redding die I have, the tolerances between the seating stem and the sleeve are extremely tight. There's almost no chance for the bullet to get out of alignment. If you get a chance, take a close look at one.

I just don't think that the RCBS die will ever measure up to the Redding. Bullet run out (or wobble) really kills the accuracy of the .204. A generously long throat, bullet run out and too large of a free bore diameter all add up to letting the bullet get out of alignment on its jump to the lands. That's going to kill accuracy.

[pathmaker]

skipper what was your average run-out using such seating dies.On a quest to find a seating die that will have a run-out average of .001 or less, hoping for the Forster Ultra or Redding Comp. dies if not then well be investing in an K&M arbor press and Wilson dies.

[skipper]

Using the Redding Competition Seating die with Micrometer top and my RCBS Rockchucker press I was able to get right at .001 most of the time. You have to start out with no run out between the case shoulder and neck though. Start with a fire formed case and pop the primer out without running the case into the die. You can do that by screwing the decapping pin/expander ball stem all the way down as far as it will go in the die. Then just use enough pressure on the press handle to knock out the primer. Don't push the case into the die any further or it will size your fire formed case. The expander ball shouldn't even touch the case neck because it is still expanded from the fire forming process. Now use a bushing neck sizing die to size the neck down to whatever neck tension you want and your ready to seat. Make sure the bushing floats so it will self center on the case neck instead of pulling it off center causing run out between the neck and shoulder. Of course you will want to clean primer pockets, possibly chamfer, etc. This method will usually produce the results you are looking for.

Use a concentricity gauge throughout your reloading process. You really do have to start out with cases that are concentric. The gauge might help determine where things start going wrong. If a case is concentric and then you run it into your bushing die and it isn't any more, you will see the problem.

The K&M Arbor Press and Wilson dies are hard to beat when you are looking for the ultimate in concentricity. Please, remember that this type press has only one job. It is meant for seating bullets and that's about it. They aren't meant for sizing operations. The Wilson Bushing Neck Sizing Die is made to be used with a plastic faced mallet.

[pathmaker]

Skipper thanks for the tips on the reloading dies well be using those techniques when I receive them.Have a RCBS concentricity gauge that has been showing the progressive snowballing concentricity problem.Your right the run-out starts with the neck expander and progresses with the foul seating forming .004 to .011 of run-out .Not wasting anymore time reloading until the dies get here , Thanks again for your experience with such things.