New cartridge question

hunterapp · Post by **hunterapp** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 7:46 pm

Hello:

Question primarily for those who have been involved with the 204 Ruger since her introduction. I was curious how the process of releasing load data progressed? I had it easy as I only have been working with the 204 ruger for less than a year.
Presently the 17 fireball has been competing with the 204 for my attention. I find it a little surprising as to how slow information has been released. The lack of cartridge dimensions comes as the biggest surprise to me. Looks like the 17 FB will take a back seat to the 204 in most every respect. Still the highly efficient cartridge shoots well within the right wind and distance parameters.
The 17 FB cartridge dimensions are slightly different from the 17 Mach 4 wildcat. Seems as the only notable difference between the 17 FB and the 17 Mach IV is the length of the neck. I have been working with the 17 FB for less than 2 weeks and am bothered by the question of determining the correct OAL for the brass.
Hodgdon has released load data for the 17 FB and I am happy to see that they have not been overly conservative with the load data. One thing I do question is the 1.4" cartridge length called for, as the factory ammo I have worked with yields brass with a length that ranges between 1.405" to 1.420"

Would someone wish to help a guy determine an optimal length one may trim the 17 FB brass to?

Thanks,

Hunterapp

WrzWaldo · Post by **WrzWaldo** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 7:56 pm

hunterapp wrote:Hello:

Would someone wish to help a guy determine an optimal length one may trim the 17 FB brass to?

Thanks,

Hunterapp

For that answer you will have to measure your chamber length then subtract an amount you are comfortable working with. A good gauge of this number would be a before and after firing length of the case.

Gone Ballistic · Post by **Gone Ballistic** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 9:17 pm

I agree with Waldo. I think the 17 FireBall is still considered a wildcat, which by definition basicly means "you're on your own" until one of the big manufacturers pick it up as a "standard". You should probably get some Cerrosafe from either Midway or Brownells (comes in 1/2 or one pound ingots), and make a casting of your rifle's chamber. Follow the directions and make sure the molten metal gets into the lands for a short distance and then wait for one hour before taking the measurements on what drops out of your chamber. That will give you the most accurate picture of what you're working with. Then it's up to you to decide what length you want to trim your brass to and the maximum room you have for elongation of the brass. Rule of thumb is to trim after the neck grows .010" and at that length it should be either at or slightly shorter than the throat of your rifle. It really doesn't matter what a loading manual says IF you have the real sizes of your own rifle's chamber.

WrzWaldo · Post by **WrzWaldo** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 9:32 pm

The 17 Fireball is actually a Remington factory offering. I have asked Remington for the cartridge dimensions.

The quickest way to measure your chamber length is with this tool.

http://www.sinclairintl.com/cgi-bin/cat ... type=store

Gone Ballistic · Post by **Gone Ballistic** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 9:43 pm

Thanks Waldo. At my age everything is FUZZY anyway !! My advice is worth what you pay for it !!

hunterapp · Post by **hunterapp** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 10:56 pm

Thank you, one & all for the replies.

Now I remember reading of the quick and dirty neck length gauge where one squeezes the base of a bullet out of round to near the neck diameter.

So I did just that, squeezed the base of the bullet out to .203 and slightly neck sized a short cartridge. Having seated the bullet long and backwards I had a good indicator of a maximum OAL for my 17 FB brass.

This brings me to my next question. How short may one consider to be to short of a neck? I have determined my max OAL to be 1.443" with the get you by in a pinch chamber length gauge. Actually I came up with 1.445" so I subtracted a couple thou to be on the safe side.

Here is my delima. I have formed up 50 pieces. of brass from the "221 fireball parent cartridge" and end up with a OAL of 1.38" to 1.39" with no trimming involved.
I have ordered 221 form dies to make 221 FB from 223 brass which Ill form back to 17 FB to allow more than enough excess length to allow one to work with.

So I am of a mind set that 1.430 would be a fine OAL for my rifle, based in the 1.445 length listed above. What concerns other than potential issues with keeping the neck area of the chamber clean might one experience with a cartridge of 1.38" OAL using the 221 FB parent brass?

WrzWaldo · Post by **WrzWaldo** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 12:34 pm

Wow! Got an answer from Remington already.

Norm said...

Dear Kevin:

Thank you for visiting Remington Country. You can find this information in "Cartridges of the World" which should be available at your local bookstore.

I just got back with my copy and guess what? It ain't in there!!!

the 17's in this edition (11th Edition "2006") are...

17 AH
17 AIB
17 HMR
17 Mach 2
17 Mach IV
17 Remington

I have resubmitted my request to Remington.

trevort · Post by **trevort** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 5:22 am

heaps of info on saubier

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